Sell the Leaf for a Model 3 or not?

[smkettner]

There is no reason to make a decision until Elon gives you a call in 18 to 24 months.
Just continue to enjoy the LEAF for what it is.

 

[abasile]

A Nissan dealer would never install a used part, much less a Leaf main battery from a junk yard or for that
matter, anyone other than from Nissan Parts.

You may be right. But it would be nice if there were a process in place for each EV manufacturer to re-certify its battery packs for re-use. In particular, the LEAF brand would be strengthened if Nissan made it more attractive to keep older LEAFs on the road. Back in 2010/2011, many of us here hoped and expected that with battery prices dropping over time, we'd eventually be able to upgrade to higher capacity batteries. Of course, we didn't anticipate that rapid depreciation would undercut the economics of future vehicle upgrades.

One thing that pleases me about Tesla is that, besides over-the-air software updates, they are willing to provide battery upgrades (for a significant chunk of cash, of course) for their older vehicles. That said, most Tesla battery packs are retaining capacity quite well and should not need to swapped out, at least owing to capacity loss, for a long time. In general, while Tesla as a company isn't without its flaws, they should be commended for their efforts to stand behind their products and care for their customers. This gives me hope that the Model 3 will be a great, longterm success. (Disclosure: I own TSLA shares)

 

[lorenfb]

While our LEAF has been very reliable in a mechanical sense, which we appreciate, the problem is that it won't take us everywhere we want to go. Routine trips that used to be easy now require charging for a couple of hours. Much of this could be solved by upgrading to a 30 kWh battery, if Nissan supported that.

Nissan does provide that option on a special purchase option thru each dealer's service department.
It can be easily adapted to older Leafs with two additional mounting brackets.

I don't believe this. Source?

Spoke with a key Leaf tech at Gardena Nissan. He indicated that several owners had requested the upgrade.
And why would you think Nissan wouldn't sell a battery upgrade? It's profitable for both the dealer and
Nissan. Besides, it also provides an indication of Nissan's willingness to support present Leaf owners.
If Nissan plans to continue their presence in the low-end BEV market and retain any loyalty, existing
image is critical.

By the way, been to a Nissan dealer lately?

 

[Stoaty]

Spoke with a key Leaf tech at Gardena Nissan. He indicated that several owners had requested the upgrade.

Of course they requested the upgrade. Did Nissan do the upgrade? How much did the customer pay? Nissan has said there is no way to upgrade the Leafs to the larger battery, so if what you say is true it would be big news.

Edit: I called Gardena Nissan and was told they could only replace battery with 24 kwh and that it would be "about $8,000". If you have contrary info, now would be the time to share it.

 

[craig]

I own (and enjoy) a 2014 Leaf S. Why? Because it was the most affordable family car that is all electric (especially if bought off lease). It is a wonderful car that will get me 100 miles on a charge (if I run it almost all the way down, which I don't generally do), though I generally do about 60 or so miles between charges.
Am I a brand name fanatic? No! I simply bought the best all electric available in my state. I sincerely hope that the Tesla 3, Bolt, etc are a runaway success.
The more electric cars on the road, the better off we all are.

 

[lorenfb]

Spoke with a key Leaf tech at Gardena Nissan. He indicated that several owners had requested the upgrade.

Of course they requested the upgrade. Did Nissan do the upgrade? How much did the customer pay? Nissan has said there is no way to upgrade the Leafs to the larger battery, so if what you say is true it would be big news.

Edit: I called Gardena Nissan and was told they could only replace battery with 24 kwh and that it would be "about $8,000". If you have contrary info, now would be the time to share it.

Obviously, you haven't spoken to the knowledgeable staff. Phone calls rarely if ever yield valid info.
You never really know to whom you're speaking, i.e. not all service staff are truly informed about Leafs.
Yes, they should be, but the reality is that for most service writers/managers, Leafs are the least desirable
vehicles they want in their service department. Just like with any other issue one deals with, one always
needs to pursue an issue with a true knowledgeable staff member in-person, most phone answers are
just "winging-it". If the answer received doesn't sound plausible, move up the management "chain".
If one dealer is lacking Leaf info, as is usually the case, find another dealer.

Additionally, the Leafs that are under warranty even now get the 30 kWh battery. Nissan only supplies
the 30 kWh to the service departments.

 

[LeafMuranoDriver]

Additionally, the Leafs that are under warranty even now get the 30 kWh battery. Nissan only supplies
the 30 kWh to the service departments.

This is definitely not true (Except for a Leaf that originally came with a 30 kWh battery but nobody has had one of those replaced as far as I know).

And I still do not believe you can install a 30kWh battery in a Leaf that had a 24 kWh version.

The news would be all over this forum and there are many threads asking about it.

Nissan wants to sell more Leaf vehicles, not batteries.

 

[lorenfb]

Additionally, the Leafs that are under warranty even now get the 30 kWh battery. Nissan only supplies
the 30 kWh to the service departments.

This is definitely not true (Except for a Leaf that originally came with a 30 kWh battery but nobody has had one of those replaced as far as I know).

And I still do not believe you can install a 30kWh battery in a Leaf that had a 24 kWh version.

The news would be all over this forum and there are many threads asking about it.

Nissan wants to sell more Leaf vehicles, not batteries.

You're a General Staff member of Nissan corporate and know this to be fact, right? Please!!!!!

As I said, my info came from a very knowledgeable & reliable Nissan Leaf tech!
Given the present battery prices per kWh at $200 - $225 per vehicle cost, the present retail price would
easily be $7K - $8K per battery plus 2-3 hrs at $125 -$150 per hour labor. With that price, few would
seek to pursue the issue. A naive choice decision is; That if I can buy a replacement battery I won't
buy another Leaf. Presently, the Leaf owner has many other choices, e.g. Bolt, Model 3, etc.
Besides, many are happy with their present Leaf and would just like to extend its range a little.

Bottom line: No guessing allowed. Do some field research yourself. Not all Nissan dealers have the same info.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

jumping the gun a bit there doncha think?

 

[LeafMuranoDriver]

I'm pretty sure the news would hit here and InsideEVs.com. People have been asking about the 30 kWh battery fitting into a 24 kWh Leaf and this is the very first news that it is doable.

I would think more than 1 member here would know about it.

 

[lorenfb]

I'm pretty sure the news would hit here and InsideEVs.com. People have been asking about the 30 kWh battery fitting into a 24 kWh Leaf and this is the very first news that it is doable.

I would think more than 1 member here would know about it.

Aha, guessing again.

 

[baustin]

My understanding, from what I have read across a multitude of various internet sites over that last year, is replacing a 24kwh battery with a 30kwh battery is not a technical issue. It is an issue of Nissan hindering the ability to do so in older model Leafs. One of the issues is liability concerns as Nissan would have to go back and do safety certifications for those models using the different battery pack.

We know the 30kwh battery will fit. Nissan has kept the battery housing the same for 2013+ models, and provides an adapter kit so this housing will fit in the 2011/12 models. Nissan did a mid-year change on the S model, going from 24kwh to 30kwh. The main thing preventing this from being done is the special key card required for use with the Consult tool to pair the BMS in a new battery pack with the vehicle.

It is possible Nissan will use the newer batteries for warranty replacements when the supply of older batteries is exhausted. There may be a loophole that avoids safety certification with a newer equivalent part when the original is no longer available. The people at Nissan that can provide the answers are refusing to do so.

My hope has always been that they would use the newest battery for warranty replacements, or provide an upgrade option when the replacement is done. My 2013 will be getting a warranty replacement of the battery pack sometime next year. It dropped the third bar at 24508 miles on November 9th.

 

[lorenfb]

It is possible Nissan will use the newer batteries for warranty replacements when the supply of older batteries is exhausted.

That's exactly what the dealer tech told me and it's happening now, i.e. there're no more of the 24 kWh
batteries available.

The latter is implied here:

Nissan did a mid-year change on the S model, going from 24kwh to 30kwh.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I'm pretty sure the news would hit here and InsideEVs.com. People have been asking about the 30 kWh battery fitting into a 24 kWh Leaf and this is the very first news that it is doable.

I would think more than 1 member here would know about it.

and it was when a Nissan Engineer admitted it could be done at a car show in Europe last Spring

 

[Cor]

Regarding putting a 30kWh battery in a 2011 Leaf: I have advised a German person who contacted me off-list via a friend, about how I did the swap of new modules into an old 2011 battery, so as long as the mounting of the modules (putting new modules in the 2011 shell) or the BMS wiring (putting the old BMS into the new battery pack) is not too different, it should be perfectly doable. I have not heard back from him (he already has a 30 kWh battery) so I am eager to hear from him or to do this myself one day - I have not been able to spot an affordable 30kWh battery yet, but I might start scouting for it.
Please be aware that even though plugs for the BMS sense wire fit, that does not mean that you can plug an old BMS into a new pack! The pin assignment is different between the 2011/2012 quarter stacks and the 2013+ wiring, even though the connectors are mechanically identical.
So, plug the wrong versions together and you get smoke and an unusable car, since the battery computer is paired to the car. The only resolution for that is to buy another BMS of the same type that you smoked, unsolder the serial memory chip from the burned board and put it on the good board, so it thinks it is your original BMS and your car can be made to work again...

 

[LeafMuranoDriver]

That's exactly what the dealer tech told me and it's happening now, i.e. there're no more of the 24 kWh
batteries available.

Have you heard of anyone who has had a 30 kWh battery installed? I would think we would have heard here already if it happened. Maybe it hasn't happened yet but will eventually.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

That's exactly what the dealer tech told me and it's happening now, i.e. there're no more of the 24 kWh
batteries available.

that would be a tough one to accept. guess we need to talk with the next person getting a new pack

 

[lorenfb]

That's exactly what the dealer tech told me and it's happening now, i.e. there're no more of the 24 kWh
batteries available.

Have you heard of anyone who has had a 30 kWh battery installed? I would think we would have heard here already if it happened. Maybe it hasn't happened yet but will eventually.

Everyone who owns a Leaf posts on this forum, right? And have you visited a Leaf dealer and spoken to a lead
Nissan tech there or a service manager there? And you raised the same issues just a few posts up-threat.

 

[mxp]

Hi,
Do you know the part number(s) for the 30kWh battery? And, if possible the other battery braces/adapters required for fitment into a 2011 Leaf?

I am in the process of getting a partial warranty replacement and I would like my dealer to ensure that I get a 30kWh battery where possible. Does anyone know a bit more about these part numbers so that I can have my dealer check internally before they put an order in for my replacement battery?

Thanks for any help!

It is possible Nissan will use the newer batteries for warranty replacements when the supply of older batteries is exhausted.

That's exactly what the dealer tech told me and it's happening now, i.e. there're no more of the 24 kWh
batteries available.

The latter is implied here:

Nissan did a mid-year change on the S model, going from 24kwh to 30kwh.

 

[lorenfb]

Hi,
Do you know the part number(s) for the 30kWh battery? And, if possible the other battery braces/adapters required for fitment into a 2011 Leaf?

I am in the process of getting a partial warranty replacement and I would like my dealer to ensure that I get a 30kWh battery where possible. Does anyone know a bit more about these part numbers so that I can have my dealer check internally before they put an order in for my replacement battery?

Thanks for any help!

It is possible Nissan will use the newer batteries for warranty replacements when the supply of older batteries is exhausted.

That's exactly what the dealer tech told me and it's happening now, i.e. there're no more of the 24 kWh
batteries available.

The latter is implied here:

Nissan did a mid-year change on the S model, going from 24kwh to 30kwh.

I have not pursued the issue further than establishing that it has been done. Take time to visit a Nissan
dealer who's very knowledgeable about Leafs and has done the upgrade. Start by asking a Nissan tech
that you may have developed a rapport with when you had your Nissan serviced recently.