SF BayLEAFs - e-NV200 Ride & Drives and Showcase May 28

[jackal]

Thanks for the minutes...next best thing to attending in person.

Looking at the 2nd last page of the slideshow, it mentioned about battery refresh program. Could anyone throw some light and elaborate on this topic?

 

[GRA]

I'd hoped to make it to the meeting, but couldn't. BTW, have you ever had a meeting at the Dublin Library? Seems reasonably central, they've got meeting rooms available (the smaller one free for non-profits), and they have three free Chargepoint L2s out front, plus others within a mile or two (Stoneridge mall). Pleasanton Library is almost as good (their L2's are $1.00/hr.).

 

[OrientExpress]

Looking at the 2nd last page of the slideshow, it mentioned about battery refresh program. Could anyone throw some light and elaborate on this topic?

The BRP is an investigation in which we were soliciting owner feedback for conceptual battery refresh scenarios. It is just a data gathering investigation at this point.

 

[gascant]

I'd hoped to make it to the meeting, but couldn't. BTW, have you ever had a meeting at the Dublin Library? Seems reasonably central, they've got meeting rooms available (the smaller one free for non-profits), and they have three free Chargepoint L2s out front, plus others within a mile or two (Stoneridge mall). Pleasanton Library is almost as good (their L2's are $1.00/hr.).

We've looked at Pleasanton in the past (before the L2's) and have been invited to Castro Valley Library. The issue is that, for many of the members, it's almost a full charge to get to those locations. Pleasanton may be more accessible with the DCQC in San Ramon and we've talked about having a meeting at the Nissan Training Center out there. Perhaps we can revisit this for meetings next year.

 

[GRA]

I'd hoped to make it to the meeting, but couldn't. BTW, have you ever had a meeting at the Dublin Library? Seems reasonably central, they've got meeting rooms available (the smaller one free for non-profits), and they have three free Chargepoint L2s out front, plus others within a mile or two (Stoneridge mall). Pleasanton Library is almost as good (their L2's are $1.00/hr.).

We've looked at Pleasanton in the past (before the L2's) and have been invited to Castro Valley Library. The issue is that, for many of the members, it's almost a full charge to get to those locations. Pleasanton may be more accessible with the DCQC in San Ramon and we've talked about having a meeting at the Nissan Training Center out there. Perhaps we can revisit this for meetings next year.

The Hayward QC should be available shortly as well ( http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5692" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ), which would work better for people coming from the South Bay or the Peninsula.

 

[EVDrive]

Couldn't make this last meeting as I was out of the area. :|

I posted my 2 cents about quick charge locations on another thread but it applies here as well... so re-post:

@ gascant.

We really need to add DC chargers in SOMA in San Francisco (Whole Foods or Trader Joes), Scotts Valley, Downtown San Jose, Berkeley (Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Cal or Berkeley Bowl) and Downtown Napa. First SF of course as it is crazy EV's can't go from San Jose to the City.

If we added these spots, we would all be free to move anywhere around the Bay.

 

[edatoakrun]

...The EAA has 2 refurbished L2 chargers (Clipper Creek) for sale at approximately $250 each (depending on shipping). These units do not have the “smart” functions of the Blink, for example, but are great alternatives for drivers wanting a simple wall charging unit...

I emailed the GGEVA re these L2's and received no response.

Anyone know who the correct contact is?

Please post or PM me.

 

[tbleakne]

ElectricVehicle presented an update on the charging infrastructure. Brendan Jones from Nissan North America mentioned (at LEAF celebration) that the will be 100 QCs installed in the Bay Area. The tentative hosts for the 100+ QCs are BAAQMD (41), retail installations (23), NRG settlement (53). Unfortunately, only 5-6 sites have been determined. Ecotality has plans for expanding their QC locations, which include Menlo Park, Hayward, Petaluma, Calistoga, Concord, South SF, Fremont, Newark and Santa Clara. Nissan has a QC unit that they will locate at a dealer in the Bay Area. They have asked for recommendations from the SF BayLEAFs for locating the QC. All suggestions must be submitted to [email protected] by Wednesday (Oct. 17).


Slides from the meeting can be downloaded here: http://www.mediafire.com/view/?24d06ebe3spu78y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How does BAAAQMD provide 41 host locations? On what types of property ? SCAQMD has just one new QC, on their property.
SoCal was supposed to get some NRG QCs by end of 2012, but my understanding is that NRG deployment has been delayed by a suit from Ecotality. Was there any discussion of this? We in SoCal have lost one of our 3 private QC due to excessive demand chargers. Was there any discussion of demand charges? It would seem that in SoCal the gap between promises and reality is widening.

Your link shows me you have 19 slides, but none of them will load for me.

 

[TEG]

I have seen Chargepoints at various random corporate locations with BAAQMD stickers on them.
I don't think they must be at an actual BAAQMD facility, just that they provide funding (grants?) for those companies willing to offer public charging.

 

[kevini]

Was there any discussion of demand charges? It would seem that in SoCal the gap between promises and reality is widening.

PG&E does not charge demand charges so this should be an issue in NorCal. Certain Muni power companies do so as long as the quick chargers are not in those locations it should be fine.

There has been a lot of research into minimizing demand changes with DCQC. It has to be resolved to truly make EV's work for an only car.

 

[grommet]

Yep. I believe the 350Green owned/operated CHAdeMO Quick Charger at Stanford Shopping Center was funded in part by BAAQMD, and more were originally planned... (well, at least before 350Green's financial issues and planned sell-off).

 

[TEG]

PG&E does not charge demand charges...

Understanding Demand Charges on Your PG&E Bill

 

[TEG]

Yep. I believe the 350Green owned/operated CHAdeMO Quick Charger at Stanford Shopping Center was funded in part by BAAQMD...

Yep:
http://350green.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/First-fast-charger-in-CA-installed-350Green.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...The fast charger ... was funded in part by a grant from the Bay Area Air Quality Management District (BAAQMD) as part of its “Spare the Air” program...

http://www.sparetheair.org/Make-a-Difference/Take-Action/Electric-Vehicles.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[kevini]

PG&E does not charge demand charges...

Understanding Demand Charges on Your PG&E Bill

They don't have demand charges on the commercial rates used for DCFC's. Have a look at this report:

http://www.theevproject.com/downloa...-Demand Charge Reduction V1.0 Revised (2).pdf

Specifically it says:
Some of The EV Project utility partners do not impose any demand charges for the power and energy demand of a DCFC installation:
1. Tucson Electric Power
2. Alameda Municipal Power
3. Silicon Valley Power
4. Pacific Gas and Electric
5. City of Palo Alto Utilities

 

[TEG]

OK, thanks!

 

[gascant]

@ gascant.

We really need to add DC chargers in SOMA in San Francisco (Whole Foods or Trader Joes), Scotts Valley, Downtown San Jose, Berkeley (Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Cal or Berkeley Bowl) and Downtown Napa. First SF of course as it is crazy EV's can't go from San Jose to the City.

If we added these spots, we would all be free to move anywhere around the Bay.

Hold the thought and don't lose it--the input needed for BAAQMD planning was nominally on the criteria for deciding what type of charging station works for a potential site. They specifically asked for people not to suggest locations for this. However, I have to believe that station location inputs will be needed at some point in the not-too-distant future. The plan also includes Monterey Bay so I'd include Monterey in your list

Honestly, though, this section of the planning document was done by a consulting firm that does not count EV drivers among its staff, as far as I can tell. In the SF BayLEAFs comments prefacing the section, I said outright that a lot of work needs to be done to make it more complete and take into account real driver input.

 

[gascant]

ElectricVehicle presented an update on the charging infrastructure. Brendan Jones from Nissan North America mentioned (at LEAF celebration) that the will be 100 QCs installed in the Bay Area. The tentative hosts for the 100+ QCs are BAAQMD (41), retail installations (23), NRG settlement (53). Unfortunately, only 5-6 sites have been determined. Ecotality has plans for expanding their QC locations, which include Menlo Park, Hayward, Petaluma, Calistoga, Concord, South SF, Fremont, Newark and Santa Clara. Nissan has a QC unit that they will locate at a dealer in the Bay Area. They have asked for recommendations from the SF BayLEAFs for locating the QC. All suggestions must be submitted to [email protected] by Wednesday (Oct. 17).


Slides from the meeting can be downloaded here: http://www.mediafire.com/view/?24d06ebe3spu78y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How does BAAAQMD provide 41 host locations? On what types of property ? SCAQMD has just one new QC, on their property.
SoCal was supposed to get some NRG QCs by end of 2012, but my understanding is that NRG deployment has been delayed by a suit from Ecotality. Was there any discussion of this? We in SoCal have lost one of our 3 private QC due to excessive demand chargers. Was there any discussion of demand charges? It would seem that in SoCal the gap between promises and reality is widening.

Your link shows me you have 19 slides, but none of them will load for me.

Try right click and download. It's a PDF file.
BAAQMD is funding the 41 stations, not hosting them. Some of the Ecotality stations are starting to spring up now. At the public meeting, the Program Director said that, at the time of the first request for proposal (6 stations), only 350 Green responded.

 

[gascant]

All: Our November meeting location fell through late last week. We're scrambling to find another location, but it is getting tough at this stage of the game. The meeting is currently scheduled for 10 AM on Saturday, November 10th. If anyone can sponsor a meeting or can direct us to someone, please feel free to suggest (in public or by PM). Unfortunately, the date is fixed as our featured speaker, Terry O'Day from NRG, is coming up from Southern California. He'll be talking about the CPUC settlement status, and further implications for EV drivers in the Bay Area.

 

[tbleakne]

PG&E does not charge demand charges...

Understanding Demand Charges on Your PG&E Bill

They don't have demand charges on the commercial rates used for DCFC's. Have a look at this report:

http://www.theevproject.com/downloa...-Demand Charge Reduction V1.0 Revised (2).pdf

Specifically it says:
Some of The EV Project utility partners do not impose any demand charges for the power and energy demand of a DCFC installation:
1. Tucson Electric Power
2. Alameda Municipal Power
3. Silicon Valley Power
4. Pacific Gas and Electric
5. City of Palo Alto Utilities

Thanks for these links and info. If PG&E has no demand charges that affect DCQC, I now can see a strong reason why the Bay Area seems to be gaining DCQC much faster than SoCal. I happen to know that SCAQMD is sweating the increase in their demand charges from their single new Blink DCQC installed at their HQ property.

I checked the PG&E commercial tariff pages at http://www.pge.com/tariffs/ERS.SHTML#ERS.
Tariff A-1 has no demand charges, and it has been available for users with demand under 200 kW. However, it now says that as of Nov 1, 2012, it will be closed to users whose demand exceeds 75 kW. This should be OK for CHAdeMO, but it could hit Tesla SuperChargers. This might mean that users exceeding 75 kW would be shifted to Tariff A-10, which has demand charges of $12/kW Summer and $5.6/kW Winter. If there is a specific exemption for EV charging, I need help locating it. My understanding is that the PUC refused to order such exemptions in the summer of 2011.

I was present when Jian Torkan make a personal appeal for Demand Charge relief for his Eaton DCQC in San Bernardino (SCE Territory) to a panel of state-wide representatives at a hearing at SCAQMD HQ last Spring. He got no sympathy and no promises.

It would appear the Bay Area is doubly-blessed: an utility climate that encourages DCQC and a mild temperature climate that greatly slows the drop in battery capacity. I hope you folks take some pity on us poor SoCal cousins who have neither of these advantages .

I understand that the PUC might revisit the issue of Demand Charge exemption in 2013. Perhaps you well-connected folks could help make the case that at least temporary relief from Demand Charges is essential for widespread DCQC deployment.

 

[davewill]

... I understand that the PUC might revisit the issue of Demand Charge exemption in 2013. Perhaps you well-connected folks could help make the case that at least temporary relief from Demand Charges is essential for widespread DCQC deployment.

What is really needed is for Nissan and Tesla to be there making the case. I assume that Blink and the other providers will be.