Sierra Club "Nine Myths About EVs"

[DeaneG]

..PG&E offers two rates tailored for EVs. Both give you 75 hours/week of "off-peak" rates One, which requires no additional expense in equipment (other than your charging dock, if you decide you need it and can't get it free) puts the whole house on a time-of-day schedule with off-peak rates from 5 cents to 18 cents per kWh depending on how much you use. The other keeps your house on the existing rate, and uses a second meter for the car with rates which are effectively from 6 cents to 20 cents per kWh, but does involve some up-front costs. (Actually, with the second plan there are rates up to 32 cents per kWh, but you would have to have a battery nearly twice as big as the LEAF to even see 20 cents as an average. You'd probably have to drive more than about 50 miles a day to get your average over 10 cents per kWh.)

Option one places my summertime AC use (allergies) at very high peak rates, increasing my non-EV bill by about $400 yearly. Option two requires a second meter installation at a cost of $2-4K. Neither one was attractive, so I spent $13K (after incentives) on a rooftop solar PV system instead. When someone asks me how much it will cost to drive my Leaf, I can only say "I don't know". What do I amortize into my cost per mile?

 

[EVDRIVER]

the map would imply that Cali has the highest gas tax in the nation and that would be wrong.

Where the heck is this Cali place you keep mentioning?

 

[AndyH]

..The United States does not stop at the California border...

I'll bet half of all EVs will be sold in California.

In what time frame?

 

[DeaneG]

..The United States does not stop at the California border...

I'll bet half of all EVs will be sold in California.

In what time frame?

Let's say over the next five years. I hope and believe that by then the CPUC should be able to figure out a pricing strategy for electricity which makes EVs cost-competitive with ICE for most people in California.

 

[EricH]

You need to pick a timeframe that you think fairly represents the life of your solar system, then amortize the capital cost ($13k) plus any maintenance over that time, against the expected annual kWh output from the system giving you a $/kWh answer. If you don't care about present value, then figure $1,000/year for 13 years (or maybe $2,000/year for 6.5 years if you only did this because of the Leaf).

 

[awolfe63]

Unfortunately I am a PG&E customer.

I'm paying PG&E under $.04/KWh for my additional usage. The E9a and E9b rates are available. E9b requires a second meter.

 

[thankyouOB]

I just got the latest from LADWP for net metering EV customers.

If you have net metering you have two options:

-stay on TOU for the entire house and any overage from the panels or cash in the bank will offset your EV use.

-add a second TOU meter and you get 2.5-cent per kilowatt discount for BASE period usage only for that circuit. otherwise standard rates apply to that circuit
you cannot offset usage from you PV array or costs from using money from your solar bank account but you dont pay a second $8 service charge or a minimum charge for that second meter and its account. You just pay the electric costs.

The cost of the second TOU meter installation is something you pay but LADWP supplies the meter. If you do it during the EV Project install, I think they cover that. I dont really know that for sure.
In my case, the first option is best, as I have cash in my account.

The base rates (8 p.m. to 10 a.m daily and all day weekends are: 10.8 cents kwh for june to sept and 11.2 cents kwh for oct to may.)

 

[EVDRIVER]

Unfortunately it tries to debunk a myth by repeating the myth about electricity being cheap. They quote the price of $0.12/kwh without mentioning that California consumers will are more likely to pay $0.38/kwh for any additional electricity they use.

The United States does not stop at the California border.

You're right, though - the SC really messed up. 12 cents is way too high. We have 11 cents a kWh 24/7 here. :lol:

That's like free electricity. Unless you live in a 1 bedroom apartment and never use the lights you may pay that here, I was over $.32 often in a small home.

 

[sparky]

You need to pick a timeframe that you think fairly represents the life of your solar system, then amortize the capital cost ($13k) plus any maintenance over that time, against the expected annual kWh output from the system giving you a $/kWh answer. If you don't care about present value, then figure $1,000/year for 13 years (or maybe $2,000/year for 6.5 years if you only did this because of the Leaf).

Jeez, I've gotten so I can rough-estimate this in my sleep. When I installed my PV system I put extra mounts in and added a box to tie-in micro-inverters. So, I can buy two panels (220W) plus a dual Enphase for $1380-> ~$1k (w/Fed credit) and get an annual bump of about 4 mi/Watt (STC) or 1760 PV miles or 100 gallons of gas ($365 today).
So, payback looks like less 3 yrs. Granted, the low cost of this option comes from making my present system upgrade ready and having a steady supply of cheap, unskilled labor (teenage boys... with documentation).

 

[EricH]

Jeez, I've gotten so I can rough-estimate this in my sleep. When I installed my PV system I put extra mounts in and added a box to tie-in micro-inverters. So, I can buy two panels (220W) plus a dual Enphase for $1380-> ~$1k (w/Fed credit) and get an annual bump of about 4 mi/Watt (STC) or 1760 PV miles or 100 gallons of gas ($365 today).
So, payback looks like less 3 yrs. Granted, the low cost of this option comes from making my present system upgrade ready and having a steady supply of cheap, unskilled labor (teenage boys... with documentation).

I think the appropriate comparison to justify additional solar planels is to your local electricity tariff. The 'spread' between gas and electricity prices is a sunk benefit once you sign the purchase contract for the Leaf. If you can achieve a 3-year payback on solar panel costs vis-a-vis simply buying the extra electricity from the local utility, more power to you