So, owners what range are you getting ?

[Herm]

I hate to bring this up, but how does an owner determine if they got a bad battery? Did Nissan have a bad batch of batteries and some of us got the lemons? Could the large discrepancy between different owners be less about driving habits, and more about quality control issues with the batteries? How would we know?

The dealership would know exactly what the capacity of your battery is, since the owner is probably a rebublican you dont want to trust them too much.

There probably is a variation in battery quality, some of the chinese manufacturers are reputed to have a variation of 10%. Every cell undergo "formating" charge/discharge cycles at the factory as part of the manufacturing process, hopefully every substandard cell would be discarded.. or perhaps graded and binned accordingly, for later use in repairing batteries.

To test your battery at home, just run it around a predetermined course, but make sure you end up at the start point so that elevation changes and winds cancel out.. run a continuous loop around you house, about 3-4 miles away from it. That way you have range to get back home when the warnings come on.

I'm lazy, I would just prop up the front of the car on jack stands and run the motor until the battery conks out

 

[bsavall]

I agree that the algorithm used to calculate the remaining milage is in need of a complete overhaul. It appears to be basing the range on too short of a time frame; to me this is a fatal flaw in the software and Nissan needs to re-vamp. There are nearly infinite possible variables which could cause milage differences based on driving habits. San Diego is a great market for EV's and has fairly moderate terrain. We do a mix a freeway driving and surface streets but a round trip has nearly identical elevation changes up and down. We do a lot of coasting to take advantage of the regen.

My point is that if you advertise 100 mile range that should be under a reasonable mix of driving conditions. If I drive to work and around town with a mix of freeway and highway and no climate control, and can only reliably get 55 miles on an 80% charge, when my battery is new, then what will happen 5 years from now driving the same route on a hot day with the AC on? I worry about the drivers in very cold or very warm climates as their range will suffer even more than down in San Diego.

As much as I hope to see the EV market grow, future buyers really need to understand that 100 mile range is NOT 100 miles in real world conditions. Even the EPA estimate of 79 miles is a tad high based on my experience. If Nissan continues to claim 100 mile range, they are dangerously close to being hit with false advertising claims in the not so distant future.

Sorry to be the pessimist, but I believe in truth in advertising.


Thanks,

 

[ravi100]

Starting SOC : 100%
Range (till battery low) : 70 (16 left)
Range (till turtle) :
Driving : 60 miles out of the 70 were on the highway. Always ECO mode, cruise control set at 60mph

Climate : This morning in Dallas Temp 62-65 deg. No climate control.

NOT very encouraging!
From what I'm seeing so far, on a hot day (85-90deg) A/C on, highway (65-70mph), non-ECO mode will be about 50 miles of range

 

[Herm]

As much as I hope to see the EV market grow, future buyers really need to understand that 100 mile range is NOT 100 miles in real world conditions. Even the EPA estimate of 79 miles is a tad high based on my experience. If Nissan continues to claim 100 mile range, they are dangerously close to being hit with false advertising claims in the not so distant future.

Sorry to be the pessimist, but I believe in truth in advertising.

Have people forgotten the old YMMV disclaimer in all MPG ads?.. Perhaps dealers need to have the buyer sign a form that states range will vary from 60 to 130 miles under different conditions and driving styles. The EPA does a good job testing the range, they say 73 miles.. if you routinely get the EPA ratings in your other cars then you should too with the Leaf, if you dont then you wont. Ignore the range Guesstimator™, its broken.

 

[bsavall]

[/quote]

Have people forgotten the old YMMV disclaimer in all MPG ads?.. Perhaps dealers need to have the buyer sign a form that states range will vary from 60 to 130 miles under different conditions and driving styles. The EPA does a good job testing the range, they say 73 miles.. if you routinely get the EPA ratings in your other cars then you should too with the Leaf, if you dont then you wont. Ignore the range Guesstimator™, its broken.[/quote]

Early adopters are generally more in tune with EV range variance and seemingly fairly forgiving about it. Your average consumer is not going to be; and as more people buy LEAFs, and other EV's, Nissan severely risks losing it's leadership position. YMMV for an gas powered cars of 30-40 MPG is not the same as YMMV for an EV of 60-130. It is simple psychology; if you sell someone a car and claim range of 65 miles, and they get more than that they will think they got a great deal. If you sell someone a car and claim it will get 100 miles, and the consistently get 60, they will pull together a class action suit and take you to the cleaners.

Any attorneys in the audience can correct me here, but if the Nissan attorneys are reading, they are nervous.

I realize that my statements above will not be popular in this forum, but Nissan ADVERTISES 100 mile range on full charge. They need to stop as it is misleading to the general public.

 

[gascant]

Day 2 of LEAF ownership (after driving 45 miles on Day 1 with a mix of D and ECO as well as green driving and "hot demo" for a friend)
100% Charge showed 106 mi Range (116 in ECO/no Ventilation) which I found unbelievable.
Ran a quick 2 mi trip to pick up bagels and coffee for today's SF BayLEAFs meeting, then headed up to Newark CA for the tailgate party prior to same. About 6 miles surface streets and 25 freeway, arrived with 63 miles remaining but using 4 bars only (7-8 mi/bar). Came straight home after the meeting (as my planned side trip got canceled) and ended up going exactly 60 miles total using 8 bars and showing 30 miles range remaining. No hills, and kept the freeway to 60 mph in ECO mode. Grew 1.5 trees in each direction. Not a bad day--fairly normal I'd say.

 

[Azat]

Have people forgotten the old YMMV disclaimer in all MPG ads?.. Perhaps dealers need to have the buyer sign a form that states range will vary from 60 to 130 miles under different conditions and driving styles. The EPA does a good job testing the range, they say 73 miles.. if you routinely get the EPA ratings in your other cars then you should too with the Leaf, if you dont then you wont. Ignore the range Guesstimator™, its broken.[/quote]

Early adopters are generally more in tune with EV range variance and seemingly fairly forgiving about it. Your average consumer is not going to be; and as more people buy LEAFs, and other EV's, Nissan severely risks losing it's leadership position. YMMV for an gas powered cars of 30-40 MPG is not the same as YMMV for an EV of 60-130. It is simple psychology; if you sell someone a car and claim range of 65 miles, and they get more than that they will think they got a great deal. If you sell someone a car and claim it will get 100 miles, and the consistently get 60, they will pull together a class action suit and take you to the cleaners.

Any attorneys in the audience can correct me here, but if the Nissan attorneys are reading, they are nervous.

I realize that my statements above will not be popular in this forum, but Nissan ADVERTISES 100 mile range on full charge. They need to stop as it is misleading to the general public.[/quote]

+1

 

[bowthom]

DUDE, I only got 34.8 miles on 8 bars. I would love to get 60!

 

[OrientExpress]

Started with 103 mile range this morning went 60 real miles on the freeway, half at 65 in Eco, and half at 60 in Eco. At the end of the trip had 28 miles left on the range meter. So that would make 89 miles total for a variance of 14 miles. Not too far off the mark.

 

[bsavall]

Started with 103 mile range this morning went 60 real miles on the freeway, half at 65 in Eco, and half at 60 in Eco. At the end of the trip had 28 miles left on the range meter. So that would make 89 miles total for a variance of 14 miles. Not too far off the mark.

Orient Express: I would kill to get that range. Want to swap batteries?

 

[bsavall]

DUDE, I only got 34.8 miles on 8 bars. I would love to get 60!

Bowthom: looks like you and I got the crap batteries....want to join my class action suit?

 

[planet4ever]

Have people forgotten the old YMMV disclaimer in all MPG ads?.. Perhaps dealers need to have the buyer sign a form that states range will vary from 60 to 130 miles under different conditions and driving styles.

No "perhaps" about it. So far as I know, every LEAF owner or lessee has signed just such a document. It is called a "2011 LEAF CUSTOMER DISCLOSURE FORM" and you have to sign a statement that "I __________, hereby acknowledge that I have carefully read and understand all of the written information contained in this document concerning the 2011 LEAF prior to my purchase."

Included in that document are the five examples of range that are now familiar to us here on this board, from 138 miles ideal (constant 38 mph) down to 62 miles in a winter traffic jam. None of them shows more than 70 miles in highway driving.

Ray

 

[AndY1]

DUDE, I only got 34.8 miles on 8 bars. I would love to get 60!

Bowthom: looks like you and I got the crap batteries....want to join my class action suit?

How about you drive until you run out of charge and then charge the car to 100%? Measure, how much kWh went in and compare the number with others that posted this exact information on this forum.

 

[ERG4ALL]

planet4ever wrote: Included in that document are the five examples of range that are now familiar to us here on this board, from 138 miles ideal (constant 38 mph) down to 62 miles in a winter traffic jam. None of them shows more than 70 miles in highway driving.

My experience was the same. I not only had to agree on the reservation page that I understood the range issue, but also had to sign the disclosure document before I took delivery on our LEAF.

I've posted this before but maybe some are new. The drag goes up by the square of the speed. Thus, just a 5 mph increase in speed can use up a considerable amount of extra energy. For example, the extra energy required to go 60 mph vs 55 mph is 19%. The extra energy required to go 65 vs 60 is 17% and the extra energy to go 70 vs 65 is 16%. Looking at the total difference between 55 and 70 yields 62% (70 squared = 4,900 divided by 55 squared [3.025] equals 62% greater energy). It is easy to see why the government during the oil embargo of 1973 imposed a 55 mph national speed limit.

I just finished reading John Hofmeister's book "Why We Hate the Oil Companies". Hofmeister is former President of Shell Oil North America. It is an interesting book. In it he states that the U.S. consumes 21 million barrels of crude oil per day. 13 to 14 million barrels are imported from foreign countries. This causes the U.S. to hemorrhage over one billion dollars per day to foreign countries, some of which aren't particularly fond of the U.S.

As all you LEAFers know, the energy to propel the LEAF is nearly all (coal, nuclear, hydro, wind, solar, geothermal, natural gas) generated in this country providing jobs for its citizens.

What I am suggesting is that those with poorer than expected range test their cars by making some trips deliberately at the slow speeds to see if there is a battery problem before we start talking about class action suits. What is at stake is too important than to try to denigrate the LEAF's image because of poor driving habits or lack of attention to the paperwork they signed.

 

[evnow]

Starting SOC : 100%
Range (till battery low) : 70 (16 left)
NOT very encouraging!

That looks good - 86 in total (with new firmware, right ?) with freeway driving. I tell everyone to expect only 70 miles.

From what I'm seeing so far, on a hot day (85-90deg) A/C on, highway (65-70mph), non-ECO mode will be about 50 miles of range

I'd like to hear more about this. What m/kwh does Leaf show ?

 

[bsavall]

The dash display showed 4.3 m / kwh which is a very consistent number for us. We reset it daily, but maybe I missed a day. But if we normaly get 4.3 and I get 2.9 that day, then the average should drop some amount. My wife and I are in hyper-vigilent mode about resetting all gauges now, and will post in a few weeks when we get more data points.

Thanks,

 

[thankyouOB]

planet4ever wrote: Included in that document are the five examples of range that are now familiar to us here on this board, from 138 miles ideal (constant 38 mph) down to 62 miles in a winter traffic jam. None of them shows more than 70 miles in highway driving.

My experience was the same. I not only had to agree on the reservation page that I understood the range issue, but also had to sign the disclosure document before I took delivery on our LEAF.

I've posted this before but maybe some are new. The drag goes up by the square of the speed. Thus, just a 5 mph increase in speed can use up a considerable amount of extra energy. For example, the extra energy required to go 60 mph vs 55 mph is 19%. The extra energy required to go 65 vs 60 is 17% and the extra energy to go 70 vs 65 is 16%. Looking at the total difference between 55 and 70 yields 62% (70 squared = 4,900 divided by 55 squared [3.025] equals 62% greater energy). It is easy to see why the government during the oil embargo of 1973 imposed a 55 mph national speed limit.

I just finished reading John Hofmeister's book "Why We Hate the Oil Companies". Hofmeister is former President of Shell Oil North America. It is an interesting book. In it he states that the U.S. consumes 21 million barrels of crude oil per day. 13 to 14 million barrels are imported from foreign countries. This causes the U.S. to hemorrhage over one billion dollars per day to foreign countries, some of which aren't particularly fond of the U.S.

As all you LEAFers know, the energy to propel the LEAF is nearly all (coal, nuclear, hydro, wind, solar, geothermal, natural gas) generated in this country providing jobs for its citizens.

What I am suggesting is that those with poorer than expected range test their cars by making some trips deliberately at the slow speeds to see if there is a battery problem before we start talking about class action suits. What is at stake is too important than to try to denigrate the LEAF's image because of poor driving habits or lack of attention to the paperwork they signed.

very very smart man and I endorse it all.
for a 25-mile trip on the freeway, going 65 mph gets you there in 23 minutes.
60 gets you there in 25 minutes.
going 55, takes two more minutes.
that extra four minutes (55 to 65) costs you about 40% more energy.

 

[DaveEV]

Seems like most of the recent posts complaining about lower than expected range are only charging to 80%. Which makes me think that perhaps the SOC was actually less than 80% to start off with. Which wouldn't be surprising as determining the SOC accurately in the middle of the pack is more difficult than when the battery is near full or empty.

I suggest repeating the experiments with 100% charge.

 

[bowthom]

Hello,
Yesterday's travels: What I would consider "normal" Leaf behavior (close to baseline data).
Temp 67*, No CC, 80% freeway 60~65 mph.
Started @ 100% used 6 SOC bars.
Odometer = 35.4 miles | carwings = 34.6 miles
blink 5.4 kWh then faulted (will no longer charge car) + mini evse (w/mod) 6.2 kWh = 11.6 kWh | carwings = 9.6 kWh
5.9 miles/SOC bar OR 1.6 kWh/SOC bar OR 3.7 m/kWh

Drees: It makes no difference what state of charge the battery has when starting out. I have had anomalies starting at 100%, 80% & 50%.
Sometimes the first trip is abnormal but the second behaves perfectly. My kWh/SOC bar varies from 1.1 to 1.7 and that is one thing that should remain constant if the gauge is to mean anything.

 

[Mx5racer]

My normal commute is 22 miles and I normally use 4 bars.
This is some traffic in the morning and pretty open on the way home.
I drive in ECO

Today I drove 28 miles round trip, with rain in the morning, 70+ on the way
And open freeway 80+ on the way home . No ECO
I used 8 bars 10 to 2

How you drive and how fast make a huge difference.