The Kochs Are Plotting A Multimillion-Dollar Assault On Electric Vehicles

[grandizer52]

but maybe spend sometime in the military, and see really how dysfunctional the government is...it's a lot worse than can/fox/facebook/twitter got you believing

Spend some time in any large hierarchy, and you'll either realize that groups of humans can be - and usually are - pretty dysfunctional...or you'll decide that it's just group A that is dysfunctional, and will then spend your time hating that one group for a species-wide design flaw. I prefer to distrust all groups with power, while cautiously supporting those that do more good then harm. The Koch brothers fund a program on PBS that helps encourage kids to study science (thus providing them with future trained employees) while at the same time despoiling the environment and funding paid denials that any such despoilment is occurring. Hmm, what to think of them....?

Darn it...got to agree with the F!@#ing new yawkah again

 

[LeftieBiker]

New York is actually a "purple" state, with groups ranging from "woodchucks" (our version of the Redneck) to wine-sipping Prius (and Leaf!) driving snobs. Me, I'm sort of a Lone Moose.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

but maybe spend sometime in the military, and see really how dysfunctional the government is...it's a lot worse than can/fox/facebook/twitter got you believing

Spend some time in any large hierarchy, and you'll either realize that groups of humans can be - and usually are - pretty dysfunctional...or you'll decide that it's just group A that is dysfunctional, and will then spend your time hating that one group for a species-wide design flaw. I prefer to distrust all groups with power, while cautiously supporting those that do more good then harm. The Koch brothers fund a program on PBS that helps encourage kids to study science (thus providing them with future trained employees) while at the same time despoiling the environment and funding paid denials that any such despoilment is occurring. Hmm, what to think of them....?

Darn it...got to agree with the F!@#ing new yawkah again

Hey, he's from Upstate NY. This might as well be a different state from Downstate NY.

Reminds me of a meme:

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3sfny6

 

[grandizer52]

Spend some time in any large hierarchy, and you'll either realize that groups of humans can be - and usually are - pretty dysfunctional...or you'll decide that it's just group A that is dysfunctional, and will then spend your time hating that one group for a species-wide design flaw. I prefer to distrust all groups with power, while cautiously supporting those that do more good then harm. The Koch brothers fund a program on PBS that helps encourage kids to study science (thus providing them with future trained employees) while at the same time despoiling the environment and funding paid denials that any such despoilment is occurring. Hmm, what to think of them....?

Darn it...got to agree with the F!@#ing new yawkah again

Hey, he's from Upstate NY. This might as well be a different state from Downstate NY.

Reminds me of a meme:

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3sfny6

I went to new york once...true store

 

[mwalsh]

A couple of young New Yorkers are getting hot and heavy inside their car, parked up by the Hudson River. All of a sudden she says, "Kiss me where it smells". So he drove her to New Jersey.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I recognize this as being English, but what? And remind me again what part of government tea-partiers wish would work -- besides (appropriately enough), "ICE".

your english...wow thats terrible...you pay way more in taxes than people in Cali

But really cause I'm in disagreement...you want to call me stupid right...not sure your back ground,
but maybe spend sometime in the military, and see really how dysfunctional the government is...it's a lot worse than can/fox/facebook/twitter got you believing

Please, please, please. What does it take to keep people from using that terrible term "Cali"?

 

[grandizer52]

your english...wow thats terrible...you pay way more in taxes than people in Cali

But really cause I'm in disagreement...you want to call me stupid right...not sure your back ground,
but maybe spend sometime in the military, and see really how dysfunctional the government is...it's a lot worse than can/fox/facebook/twitter got you believing

Please, please, please. What does it take to keep people from using that terrible term "Cali"?

Fornia sounds to lord of the rings man

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Well naturally. If there's evil being done, you can almost be certain that the Koch brothers will have some kind of hand in it,

Oh yes, those Koch brothers are soooooo evil. Like running businesses that provide jobs to tens of thousands of Americans, and in turn help to support tens of thousands of American families. Or like when they gave $25 Million of their hard earned dollars to support minority education in America. So evil.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/06/09/uncf-receives-25m-koch-brothers-prompting-praise-and-anger

this means what? nothing! heard of bribes?

 

[Bufordleaf]

Well naturally. If there's evil being done, you can almost be certain that the Koch brothers will have some kind of hand in it,

Oh yes, those Koch brothers are soooooo evil. Like running businesses that provide jobs to tens of thousands of Americans, and in turn help to support tens of thousands of American families. Or like when they gave $25 Million of their hard earned dollars to support minority education in America. So evil.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/06/09/uncf-receives-25m-koch-brothers-prompting-praise-and-anger

this means what? nothing! heard of bribes?

Sure I've heard of bribes, so what? The point I was trying to make is that, whether you agree with their politics or not, the Koch brothers do A LOT of good in this world. And they do it with their own money, of their own free will, not because the all mighty gov't forces them to. Leftists always want to demonize these guys, sort of like the guy earlier in this thread who quoted the Bible and used that verse to compare the Koch brothers to satan. That was so goofy I didn't even respond to it.

 

[grandizer52]

Oh yes, those Koch brothers are soooooo evil. Like running businesses that provide jobs to tens of thousands of Americans, and in turn help to support tens of thousands of American families. Or like when they gave $25 Million of their hard earned dollars to support minority education in America. So evil.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/06/09/uncf-receives-25m-koch-brothers-prompting-praise-and-anger

this means what? nothing! heard of bribes?

Sure I've heard of bribes, so what? The point I was trying to make is that, whether you agree with their politics or not, the Koch brothers do A LOT of good in this world. And they do it with their own money, of their own free will, not because the all mighty gov't forces them to. Leftists always want to demonize these guys, sort of like the guy earlier in this thread who quoted the Bible and used that verse to compare the Koch brothers to satan. That was so goofy I didn't even respond to it.

thumbs up....plus I don't think comparing to Satan..well how many satanic terrorist, criminals have you seen/heard

 

[GRA]

Hardly seems necessary, at current U.S. gas prices.

My car was in the shop for 3 weeks - the loaner Altima was definitely more expensive to run.

Would it have been more expensive to buy and license (absent subsidies) if you require comparable capability? Most people are more concerned with upfront costs than with life-cycle costs. After all, if you can't afford the up-front costs, life-cycle cost savings are irrelevant.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Last I heard, Lucifer and Mephistopheles were planning to sue the Koch brothers for unfair competition.

 

[smkettner]

Maybe the Koch's should partner with hydrogen car development

 

[kovalb]

Leftists always want to demonize these guys, sort of like the guy earlier in this thread who quoted the Bible and used that verse to compare the Koch brothers to satan. That was so goofy I didn't even respond to it.

I am not a leftist. I used to be a staunch conservative before realizing the one-party system run by corporations and plutocrats is destroying this nation. Plutocrats like the Koch's and Soros buy elections and corrupt the system.

 

[mwalsh]

I am not a leftist. I used to be a staunch conservative before realizing the one-party system run by corporations and plutocrats is destroying this nation. Plutocrats like the Koch's and Soros buy elections and corrupt the system.

I guess I am a Leftist. I wasn't always. Once I was a Regan Republican (and before that, when I still lived in the UK, a Thatcherite Conservative). And then I began to see how almost everyone in public life was almost certain to screw us (and I'm going to lump Bill Clinton into that pool too, for NAFTA), cumulating (IMO) with the theft of the 2000 Presidency from Al Gore and the whole Gulf War debacle under George W. Bush's "reign" (Donald Trump's words, not mine, but ring somewhat true, no?). The waste of this nation's wealth, both in treasure and lives, was nothing less than treasonous. And I'm not even blaming Bush for that - he was just the hand-puppet of folks like Chaney and Rumsfeld.

I do still have some Conservative views (large C on purpose), and some Libertarian ones, but I sure as hell don't want to see any of the Republican front runners in the WH (though I could live with Gov. Kasich, which obviously isn't going to happen because he's not clown enough for the radical right).

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Sure I've heard of bribes, so what? The point I was trying to make is that, whether you agree with their politics or not, the Koch brothers do A LOT of good in this world. And they do it with their own money, of their own free will, not because the all mighty gov't forces them to. Leftists always want to demonize these guys, sort of like the guy earlier in this thread who quoted the Bible and used that verse to compare the Koch brothers to satan. That was so goofy I didn't even respond to it.

Ok, I guess I need to clarify that we are on the same page. We have two people;

Person #1 has a family, works hard at slightly less than middle income level. Volunteers as a coach for his Kids little league, works at his local church 3 weekends a year for various things like landscaping, yard sales, etc. Donates less than $200 a year and saves very little.


Person #2; has a family that has provided him wealth he could not spend in 10 lifetimes. He could live on a few hundred thousand a year easily but has income of 25 million a year. He donates 5 million of that, banking 19 million for his great great great great grandchildren.

So as I understand it, Person #2 is a much better person because they donated 5 million? Is that right?

this article sums it up quite nicely I think. A quote concerning governmental support of EVs;

Claiming that the government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers is akin to claiming that the government should just stick with the current winners.

http://blog.ucsusa.org/josh-goldman/koch-electric-vehicles?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=fb&utm_campaign=fb

 

[Bufordleaf]

Ok, I guess I need to clarify that we are on the same page. We have two people;

Person #1 has a family, works hard at slightly less than middle income level. Volunteers as a coach for his Kids little league, works at his local church 3 weekends a year for various things like landscaping, yard sales, etc. Donates less than $200 a year and saves very little.


Person #2; has a family that has provided him wealth he could not spend in 10 lifetimes. He could live on a few hundred thousand a year easily but has income of 25 million a year. He donates 5 million of that, banking 19 million for his great great great great grandchildren.

So as I understand it, Person #2 is a much better person because they donated 5 million? Is that right?

this article sums it up quite nicely I think. A quote concerning governmental support of EVs;

Claiming that the government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers is akin to claiming that the government should just stick with the current winners.

I'm not sure if your question was rhetorical or not, but if you are asking me, then no, person #2 in your example above is not a much better person (than person #1). Just my opinion of course, but I don't think the value of one's charitable donations is the singular or even primary way to judge if one is a "good person." When judging the charitable donations of others, Jesus said the value of what they donate matters far less than what is in their hearts. Of course He can see that while none of us can.
Now circling this back to the Kochs, they certainly donate money to charities out of their abundant wealth. But they are not required to do so, therefore I don't think anyone should cheapen their donations (or those by anyone else) by suggesting that they somehow don't matter. And regardless of what people may think of them, their tremendous philanthropy does a lot of good for a lot of people who, minus the Koch brothers, might have far less opportunity than they do.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Now circling this back to the Kochs, they certainly donate money to charities out of their abundant wealth. But they are not required to do so, therefore I don't think anyone should cheapen their donations (or those by anyone else) by suggesting that they somehow don't matter.

Their charitable contributions have less moral value if they are made for strategic, rather than altruistic, reasons.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I'm not sure if your question was rhetorical or not, but if you are asking me, then no, person #2 in your example above is not a much better person (than person #1). Just my opinion of course, but I don't think the value of one's charitable donations is the singular or even primary way to judge if one is a "good person." When judging the charitable donations of others, Jesus said the value of what they donate matters far less than what is in their hearts. Of course He can see that while none of us can.
Now circling this back to the Kochs, they certainly donate money to charities out of their abundant wealth. But they are not required to do so, therefore I don't think anyone should cheapen their donations (or those by anyone else) by suggesting that they somehow don't matter. And regardless of what people may think of them, their tremendous philanthropy does a lot of good for a lot of people who, minus the Koch brothers, might have far less opportunity than they do.

I don't think of most of the Koch's donations as altruistic. they are essentially all bribes

 

[Bufordleaf]

But that was kind of my point, they don't have to be altruistic to do some good. Fine, you hate the Kochs with a passion, I get it. I don't agree, but you have the right to your opinion. But can you see through your hate just enough to admit they do some good in this world? Even if you consider that good to be a mere consequence of their strategically placed donations which you consider to be bribes.