The Kochs Are Plotting A Multimillion-Dollar Assault On Electric Vehicles

[kovalb]

But that was kind of my point, they don't have to be altruistic to do some good. Fine, you hate the Kochs with a passion, I get it. I don't agree, but you have the right to your opinion. But can you see through your hate just enough to admit they do some good in this world? Even if you consider that good to be a mere consequence of their strategically placed donations which you consider to be bribes.

This is not a valid argument. Take a despotic government for example. They may greatly reduce crime rates through fear, intimidation and violence. However the evil they cause greatly outweighs the good. It is similar with the Koch bros. The good they contribute is greatly outweighed by the evil they inflict on society to benefit themselves. Please consider the net effect the Kochs are having on society.

 

[grandizer52]

But that was kind of my point, they don't have to be altruistic to do some good. Fine, you hate the Kochs with a passion, I get it. I don't agree, but you have the right to your opinion. But can you see through your hate just enough to admit they do some good in this world? Even if you consider that good to be a mere consequence of their strategically placed donations which you consider to be bribes.

This is not a valid argument. Take a despotic government for example. They may greatly reduce crime rates through fear, intimidation and violence. However the evil they cause greatly outweighs the good. It is similar with the Koch bros. The good they contribute is greatly outweighed by the evil they inflict on society to benefit themselves. Please consider the net effect the Kochs are having on society.

gee kind of like our government now...cept no reduction in crime, actually increase, racial divide, and oh no, all those men and woman that fought President Bush's war on terrorism, they are all mentally unstable war criminals.
So as for validity, what bad has the Koch brothers done. they seem to be taking a stand agains a government that isn't doing it's job, just kicking the can down the road and not upset people, then try and get reelected.

there, valid argument resolved...NEXT

 

[grandizer52]

Leftists always want to demonize these guys, sort of like the guy earlier in this thread who quoted the Bible and used that verse to compare the Koch brothers to satan. That was so goofy I didn't even respond to it.

I am not a leftist. I used to be a staunch conservative before realizing the one-party system run by corporations and plutocrats is destroying this nation. Plutocrats like the Koch's and Soros buy elections and corrupt the system.

I agree...it is a one party system, with titles as a front for the ruling class.

 

[kovalb]

So as for validity, what bad has the Koch brothers done. they seem to be taking a stand agains a government that isn't doing it's job, just kicking the can down the road and not upset people, then try and get reelected.

there, valid argument resolved...NEXT

Really? I hope you have not closed your mind because here are some examples.

1. Koch brothers helped create the government by buying elections.
a. By buying elections they have corrupted the system.
b. This same buying of elections by plutocrats is happening on the left and right. Both are destroying this republic byy turning it into a plutocracy.

2. Examples of Koch money working against us:
a. Destruction of middle class earning power. They have supported anti-union candidates and have been effective in greatly reducing the ability of workers to use collective bargaining to ensure fair wages. The flip side is that the money that used to support raises for labor now go into the pockets of CEO, board members, and shareholders.
b. Destruction of the environment. They make their money in oil. They have fought against efforts to reduce oil production or to protect the environment, mostly through third party lobbyists.

You are correct that everything they do is not evil. The best example of good I could find is:
1. They provided considerable money, mainly to the ACLU to fight against the Patriot Act. As libertarians they have done some good. This is an important point but it fails to outweigh their other actions

My biggest concern regarding the Kochs are that they have contributed to the corruption of government by buying politicians. They also buy votes with propaganda. These same concerns also apply to members of the left, such as Soros. They also apply to major corporations, who often spread money to both sides of the aisle to ensure they will have influence. This is how the one-party system has come to be.

 

[grandizer52]

So as for validity, what bad has the Koch brothers done. they seem to be taking a stand agains a government that isn't doing it's job, just kicking the can down the road and not upset people, then try and get reelected.

there, valid argument resolved...NEXT

Really? I hope you have not closed your mind because here are some examples.

1. Koch brothers helped create the government by buying elections.
a. By buying elections they have corrupted the system.
b. This same buying of elections by plutocrats is happening on the left and right. Both are destroying this republic byy turning it into a plutocracy.

2. Examples of Koch money working against us:
a. Destruction of middle class earning power. They have supported anti-union candidates and have been effective in greatly reducing the ability of workers to use collective bargaining to ensure fair wages. The flip side is that the money that used to support raises for labor now go into the pockets of CEO, board members, and shareholders.
b. Destruction of the environment. They make their money in oil. They have fought against efforts to reduce oil production or to protect the environment, mostly through third party lobbyists.

You are correct that everything they do is not evil. The best example of good I could find is:
1. They provided considerable money, mainly to the ACLU to fight against the Patriot Act. As libertarians they have done some good. This is an important point but it fails to outweigh their other actions

My biggest concern regarding the Kochs are that they have contributed to the corruption of government by buying politicians. They also buy votes with propaganda. These same concerns also apply to members of the left, such as Soros. They also apply to major corporations, who often spread money to both sides of the aisle to ensure they will have influence. This is how the one-party system has come to be.

I get it man...you lose a lot of arguments so you try to win with invalid this,,,and close minded that...was it really the Kock Bros that destroyed the middle calss, all them hua, not the mighty guy with the pen and the phone, that instead of being in-charge, and forcing people to do their jobs (congress) he goes about his merry way doing executive orders...but yea you keep sniffing the unicorn dust...oh, turn off CNN once in a while, and do your own research, I suggest getting 3 forms of your favorite term...validation

HOO-YA AMERICA!!!!!

 

[mwalsh]

not the mighty guy with the pen and the phone, that instead of being in-charge, and forcing people to do their jobs (congress) he goes about his merry way doing executive orders..

Barack Obama - fewer Executive Orders than any President since Grover Cleveland (first term, 1885-1889). So, you know...facts and stuff.

 

[grandizer52]

not the mighty guy with the pen and the phone, that instead of being in-charge, and forcing people to do their jobs (congress) he goes about his merry way doing executive orders..

Barack Obama - fewer Executive Orders than any President since Grover Cleveland (first term, 1885-1889). So, you know...facts and stuff.

WWWRRRROOOONNNGGGG...do some homework kiddo, and executive Orders are public record, and no I don't want fries with this

 

[downeykp]

Mike et.al. There are a few very vocal Republicants here in Hawaii. They made the mistake of moving to a state that is very liberal. Unfortunately, they never let up and will never live to see a republican majority in the state house. So all of us here have to suffer through hearing all of their right wing drivel.

 

[mwalsh]

...do some homework kiddo, and executive Orders are public record, and no I don't want fries with this

You're correct, I missed an important fact in the chart I quoted from - it showed Executive Orders per year in office, not total. So in actuality Barack Obama has issued fewer Executive Orders than nearly all of the Presidents in modern history except for Bush 41, Gerald Ford, and JFK, going all the way back to William McKinley (1897-1901). And fewer than any other two term President since Grover Cleveland. I stand corrected (but not by much).

 

[kovalb]

I get it man...you lose a lot of arguments so you try to win with invalid this,,,and close minded that...was it really the Kock Bros that destroyed the middle calss, all them hua, not the mighty guy with the pen and the phone, that instead of being in-charge, and forcing people to do their jobs (congress) he goes about his merry way doing executive orders...but yea you keep sniffing the unicorn dust...oh, turn off CNN once in a while, and do your own research, I suggest getting 3 forms of your favorite term...validation

HOO-YA AMERICA!!!!!

I would never defend Obama or Congress. They are both a part of the one-party system that the Kochs helped create.

Although executive orders can be used to do wonderful things, like Teddy Roosevelt creating the National Parks, I believe Obama has abused the privilege. Although I hope the Supreme Court will overturn Obama I am not holding my breath.

Please be careful about putting labels on people and putting them into neat little bins. This is what those, like the Kochs, who are really in control want us to do. Obama is just an empty suit (that is also about the nicest thing I can say about him).

 

[grandizer52]

...do some homework kiddo, and executive Orders are public record, and no I don't want fries with this

You're correct, I missed an important fact in the chart I quoted from - it showed Executive Orders per year in office, not total. So in actuality Barack Obama has issued fewer Executive Orders than nearly all of the Presidents in modern history except for Bush 41, Gerald Ford, and JFK, going all the way back to William McKinley (1897-1901). And fewer than any other two term President since Grover Cleveland. I stand corrected (but not by much).

Ok now you get the smiley face sticker

 

[grandizer52]

I get it man...you lose a lot of arguments so you try to win with invalid this,,,and close minded that...was it really the Kock Bros that destroyed the middle calss, all them hua, not the mighty guy with the pen and the phone, that instead of being in-charge, and forcing people to do their jobs (congress) he goes about his merry way doing executive orders...but yea you keep sniffing the unicorn dust...oh, turn off CNN once in a while, and do your own research, I suggest getting 3 forms of your favorite term...validation

HOO-YA AMERICA!!!!!

I would never defend Obama or Congress. They are both a part of the one-party system that the Kochs helped create.

Although executive orders can be used to do wonderful things, like Teddy Roosevelt creating the National Parks, I believe Obama has abused the privilege. Although I hope the Supreme Court will overturn Obama I am not holding my breath.

Please be careful about putting labels on people and putting them into neat little bins. This is what those, like the Kochs, who are really in control want us to do. Obama is just an empty suit (that is also about the nicest thing I can say about him).

Dude you come to hawaii, I'm totally taking your surfing...and showing you where Obama...really isn't from

 

[kovalb]

Dude you come to hawaii, I'm totally taking your surfing...and showing you where Obama...really isn't from

No disagreement from me.

 

[kovalb]

FYI, here is a report on how the Koch brothers media campaign is proceeding.
http://gas2.org/2016/03/14/media-drinks-deeply-of-koch-brothers-kool-aid/

 

[downeykp]

Nice article. The Cohk brothers are real scum. The more you read about them the more there is to hate.

 

[grandizer52]

kind of makes me like them a bit more, using their own money as lobbyist instead of snaring the public for donations, think a lot of detractors are ignoring, they are trying to squash big government...and keep them out of you business.

 

[Evoforce]

They are not worrying about keeping government out of OUR business BUT out of THEIR business! Them (money/power) looking for less government to interfere with their business. The government that does exist, they want to manipulate to their advantage in every way possible. That is one example why government needs to keep these powerful people (corporation) from having more say so than any individual. Your voice, or my voice, or someone else's, should all be on an equal footing. This money/power leveraging has gone too far...

 

[grandizer52]

They are not worrying about keeping government out of OUR business BUT out of THEIR business! Them (money/power) looking for less government to interfere with their business. The government that does exist, they want to manipulate to their advantage in every way possible. That is one example why government needs to keep these powerful people (corporation) from having more say so than any individual. Your voice, or my voice, or someone else's, should all be on an equal footing. This money/power leveraging has gone too far...

just a thought...but since they have a huge amount of employees, think it would be a good idea to keep the GOV out of their business, and yes they have spent a ton of $$$$ to keep the GOV out of ours as well.
my buck-o-5

 

[LeftieBiker]

just a thought...but since they have a huge amount of employees, think it would be a good idea to keep the GOV out of their business, and yes they have spent a ton of $$$$ to keep the GOV out of ours as well.

Walmart also has a huge number of employees. How do you feel about them both trying to keep the government out of their business and suggesting that their employees apply for the low-income government assistance programs for which they qualify - because of their low, low Walmart wages?

How is this similar to the Koch bros? In the case of the Kochs, they want to extract the full possible profit from their enterprises, while leaving the governments (both local and national) the environmental costs, which should be included in the Kochs' overhead. In both cases, the business that claims to want no "government interference" is actually counting on the government to pay a large part of their costs of doing business.

 

[Evoforce]

just a thought...but since they have a huge amount of employees, think it would be a good idea to keep the GOV out of their business, and yes they have spent a ton of $$$$ to keep the GOV out of ours as well.

Walmart also has a huge number of employees. How do you feel about them both trying to keep the government out of their business and suggesting that their employees apply for the low-income government assistance programs for which they qualify - because of their low, low Walmart wages?

How is this similar to the Koch bros? In the case of the Kochs, they want to extract the full possible profit from their enterprises, while leaving the governments (both local and national) the environmental costs, which should be included in the Kochs' overhead. In both cases, the business that claims to want no "government interference" is actually counting on the government to pay a large part of their costs of doing business.

+1

Well said Leftie!