Tony Williams' CARB-ZEV Compliance Rating Scale

[TonyWilliams]

Ok, here it is. You've all been waiting for it. Which car(s) are most militant and hostile about California Air Resources Board - Zero Emissions Vehicle (CARB-ZEV) compliance, and which ones really want to sell battery electric cars?

.. Manufacturer .. Model(s) .... A ....... B ...... C ...... D ..... E ..... F
1. Honda - F*t EV / FCEV ..... YES ..... YES ... YES ... YES ... NO ... YES (future FCEV)
2. Toyota - R*v4 EV / FCEV... NO ..... YES ... YES ... YES ...YES ... YES (future FCEV)
3. Chry/Fiat - Fi*at 500* ....... NO ..... YES ... YES ... YES ... NO ... YES
4. GM - Sp*rk EV ................. NO ..... YES ... YES .... NO ... NO ... YES (future Frankenplug)
5. Ford - F*cus EV ............... NO ..... YES ... NO ... YES ... NO ... YES
6. Daimler - Smart/B-Class . NO ..... YES .... NO .... NO ... NO ... YES (future FCEV)
7. BMW - *3 ........................ NO ..... NO .... NO .... NO ... NO ... NO (Frankenplug, future FCEV)
8. Nissan - LE*F ................. NO ..... NO .... NO .... NO ... NO ... NO (CHAdeMO, future FCEV)


Can't yet rank:


V.VW - eGolf ........................ ??? ..... YES .... ??? .... NO ... ??? ... ??? (Frankenplug?)
X. Hyundai - FCEV ................ ??? ..... ??? .... ??? .... NO ... ??? .... NO (future FCEV)
Y. Kia - Soul EV .................... ??? ..... YES .... ??? .... NO ... ??? ... NO (CHAdeMO)
Z. Mazda - Demio EV ........... ??? ..... YES .... ??? .... NO ... ??? .... NO (CHAdeMO)


So, here is the criteria:

A. Lease Only to be crushed at lease return (no sales whatsoever)?
B. Converted car (not built on a purpose built EV chassis)?
C. Only sold in CARB states (not what the manufacturer says, but what they actually do). Only sold in minimal numbers to meet CARB requirements?
D. Loudly dismiss EV's and the CARB program, and generally announce how FEW they will produce?
E. Harass owners and dealers when the compliance car is out-of-state (California) with a warranty claim?
F. Without quick charge access on the compliance car?

************

First, let's be clear about the rules.

1. NOT EVERY CAR MAKER MUST COMPLY WITH CARB-ZEV. Currently, there are six "Large Volume Manufacturers" (LVM) that must produce Zero Emission Vehicles (ZEV) if they want to sell lots of oil burning cars in California, model years 2012-2014:

USA Big Three LVM's:

GM - about 2500 Sp*rk EV's
Ford - maybe 1500-2000 Ford F*cus EV's
Chrysler/Fiat - 491 F*at 500* for 2013 model year confirmed

Japan Big Three LVM's:

Toyota - 2600 R*v4 EV's announced
Nissan - 75,000 LE*F's so far!!
Honda - 1100 F*t EV's announced

For the 2015 and later model years, all these vehicle manufacturers must comply:

BMW, Fiat/Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Daimler/Mercedes, Nissan, Toyota, and Volkswagen must comply with the new 2012 and later CARB-ZEV requirements. Four additional manufacturers would also be required to comply with the ZEV requirements, but would be allowed to meet their obligation with PHEVs (so they aren't included, since they won't make a true ZEV). Note that neither Mitsubishi, nor Tesla are on the list.

http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20131021/motorists-to-foot-bill-for-californias-touted-hydrogen-highway" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Toyota... Hyundai, BMW, Nissan, Honda and Mercedes are also moving forward with hydrogen vehicles.

 

[morlglums]

I think Mazda has something called the "Demio EV" which is seeing limited lease's in Japan:
http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/env/ev/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have no idea what the future plans for are, but it looks closer to a "pure" EV than a retro-fit...

-m

 

[TonyWilliams]

I think Mazda has something called the "Demio EV" which is seeing limited lease's in Japan:
http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/env/ev/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have no idea what the future plans for are, but it looks closer to a "pure" EV than a retro-fit...

-m

The only manufacturer to use 18650 cylindrical cells besides Tesla !!!

 

[Bicster]

Thanks for the post.

If a manufacturer is deluded into believing that FCEV's are the end-game, are they being hostile, or just naïve?

 

[jhm614]

nice. I say assign 1 point for each "Yes" answer and anything over 3 points is a COC. Compliance Only Car.

 

[WetEV]

So, here is the ranking and the criteria:

A. Lease Only to be crushed at lease return (no sales whatsoever)?
B. Converted car (not built on a purpose built EV chassis)?
C. Only sold in CARB states (not what the manufacturer says, but what they actually do)?
D. Loudly dismiss EV's and the CARB program, and generally announce how FEW they will produce?
E. Harass owners when their car is out of state with a warranty claim?
F. Without quick charge access on the compliance car?

.. Manufacturer .. Model(s) ...... A ....... B ...... C ...... D ..... E ..... F
1. Honda - F*t EV / FCEV ..... YES ..... YES ... YES ... YES ... NO ... YES
2. Chry/Fiat - Fi*at 500* ....... NO ..... YES ... YES ... YES ... NO ... YES
3. Toyota - R*v4 EV / FCEV... NO ..... YES ... YES ... YES ...YES ... YES
4. Ford - F*cus EV ............... NO ..... YES ... NO ... YES ... NO ... YES
5. GM - Sp*rk EV ................. NO ..... YES ... YES .... NO ... NO ... YES
6. Nissan - LE*F ................. NO ..... NO .... NO .... NO ... NO ... NO (CHAdeMO)

You have Ford and GM in the wrong order, based on your rank criteria.

 

[Bicster]

I think the answers to those questions are incredibly meaningful, but seriously, if you can buy a BEV (not lease) in 50 states and get warranty service, and it's not supply constrained, then it's not a compliance car. I can't call the Focus EV a compliance car, even though Ford is openly hostile toward it.

 

[WetEV]

nice. I say assign 1 point for each "Yes" answer and anything over 3 points is a COC. Compliance Only Car.

The "Yes" answers shouldn't have equal value. "Lease only" with no sales is clearly more important that if the car is built on a platform shared with gasoline cars. I'd argue about the exact order of that Tony suggested, but not that (A) is more important than the other criteria. He has that one correct.

 

[WetEV]

So, here is the ranking and the criteria:

A. Lease Only to be crushed at lease return (no sales whatsoever)?
B. Converted car (not built on a purpose built EV chassis)?
C. Only sold in CARB states (not what the manufacturer says, but what they actually do)?
D. Loudly dismiss EV's and the CARB program, and generally announce how FEW they will produce?
E. Harass owners when their car is out of state with a warranty claim?
F. Without quick charge access on the compliance car?

.. Manufacturer .. Model(s) ...... A ....... B ...... C ...... D ..... E ..... F
1. Honda - F*t EV / FCEV ..... YES ..... YES ... YES ... YES ... NO ... YES
2. Chry/Fiat - Fi*at 500* ....... NO ..... YES ... YES ... YES ... NO ... YES
3. Toyota - R*v4 EV / FCEV... NO ..... YES ... YES ... YES ...YES ... YES
4. Ford - F*cus EV ............... NO ..... YES ... NO ... YES ... NO ... YES
5. GM - Sp*rk EV ................. NO ..... YES ... YES .... NO ... NO ... YES
6. Nissan - LE*F ................. NO ..... NO .... NO .... NO ... NO ... NO (CHAdeMO)

Also Fiat and Toyota.

 

[RegGuheert]

Methinks Tony has been told such-and-such car is not a compliance car one too many times! :lol:

Tony, how do you know Honda gets a "NO" for "E. Harass owners when their car is out of state with a warranty claim?"

 

[ksnogas2112]

Sorry, if I can't get it in KS or nearby then it's a compliance car regardless of the rest. Just my 2 cents.

 

[RonDawg]

Tony,

Why leave off a letter for the model names and substitute with an * ?

Otherwise I applaud the effort. Your rating scale is exactly what I am thinking of (and more) whether or not I consider a manufacturer's EV efforts to be merely-just-for-compliance or not.

Also, perhaps we should leave the Mazda Demio off this list, and only "F*cus" on cars already being sold here, and those that are likely to be sold here in the near future. Otherwise we should just include other not-for-America EVs like the Renault Zoe.

 

[KeiJidosha]

Ok, here it is. You've all been waiting for it. Which car(s) are most militant about California Air Resources Board - Zero Emissions Vehicle (CARB-ZEV) compliance...

It feels great to be driving #1

 

[Bicster]

Wait, have there been out-of-state warranty claims on the Fiat 500e, Fit EV, or Spark?

 

[dm33]

Only those cars sold in all states are remotely serious about selling BEVs.

Thats pretty much only Tesla Model S and Nissan Leaf. Ford Focus EV doesn't seem serious even though its available throughout. Wish there were new options. Everyone is coming out with compliance vehicles in CA, but nothing officially out of CARB states.

 

[surfingslovak]

U. BMW - i3 .......................... ??? ..... NO .... ??? .... NO ... ??? ... ??? (Frankenplug?)

Although the ActiveE does double duty as a compliance and field trial car, the i3 will be sold, not just leased. It should also be available in all markets, and not only 7 cities like the ActiveE. Both of these statements can be confirmed directly or indirectly. Warranty handling is something that remains to be seen. The ActiveE had very limited parts availability, but the handling of claims and issues was prompt and generous. Let's hope that this attitude won't change as the manufacturer graduates from a compliance to a production car.

 

[Bicster]

Not every BMW dealer will sell/service the i3, but any dealer willing to pay for certification should be able to. Most big markets will have i3 sales/service. BMW is clearly committed to electrification. It's a darn shame their first mass-market EV is an anorexic, gussied-up LEAF with extra lipstick, a carbon-fiber outfit, and an optional lawnmower engine...and not a bit more range. I hope poor sales don't discourage them. They missed an opportunity to compete on Tesla's turf before BlueStar came around.

 

[madhaus]

Oh come on, the Ch*vy Sp*rk will have the Fr*nk*npl*g Real Soon Now. The fun will be which comes first, CCS delivered on Sporks or CCS actually available to retail customers.

 

[surfingslovak]

Correct, the i3 should be available to any dealer who chooses to sell it. As someone who has worked very hard to figure out the real-wold range of the car and other parameters from the publicly available information, I have to agree that the (yet to be determined) EPA range will likely come as a disappointment to many LEAF owners, not to mention prospective Tesla owners.

That said, it's what it is, and BMW seems to think that they can sell enough of these cars. From the numbers I heard earlier, I don't think that their volume targets are as ambitious as those of Nissan or GM. While this might be disappointing to some, there are precious few manufacturers putting any real effort into EVs. I think BMW is one of them and I wish them luck. This was the only reasons why I stuck it out this long in the field trial, and helped figure out some of the kinks and problems. I got the ActiveE because it had more range than the LEAF. I might get the i3 with REx, but I'm still waiting to hear more details.

As to the rest of your comment, you seem to be channeling Steve Jurvetson. I don't think that he handled the Fox News interview very well. If the reporter asks if the i3 meant "lights out for Tesla", it's not surprising that Steve would come back with something snarky, which is exactly what he did. Did I wish a stronger BEV option? Yes, and I will let it be known to whoever wants to listen at BMW. That said, I think we should let the market decide at this point. The i3 could sell quite well and BMW's marketing efforts can only help the EV movement.

What you or I might think of the i3 does not change the fact that it's not a compliance EV in the strict sense of the word or even by Tony's chart. Whether BMW will prove to be a strong supporter of EVs, that I don't know. They appeared plenty motivated during the field trial, if you wanted to take it as an indication.

 

[ydnas7]

.... California Air Resources Board - Zero Emissions Vehicle (CARB-ZEV) compliance.....

I agree with most of your methodology, but for it to remain consistent, Tesla would need to be added to the list because Tesla sells CARB-ZEV credits, which definately transforms the Tesla into a compliance vehicle.

If the LEAF is a compliance vehicle so is the Tesla, as both their manufacturers are in the business of selling CARB-ZEV credits.

I don't know about the origins of the current CARB-ZEV legislation, but expect that it was modelled based upon Nissan's Zero Emission program's 100mile LA4, so as to guarantee the legislation a level of success.
Akin to how the federal tax rebate was modelled around GM Volt, targetting a 16kWh battery capacity.

Manufacturers who volunatarily made EVs
Mitsubishi, Tesla, Nissan

Manufacturers who voluntarily made PHEVs
GM

the rest are compliance vehicles to either a lesser or greater degree.