Can you please point me to the data or reporting that shows that the EV Project is "failing the financial and milestone requirements of the contract?" I have been unable to find this information, despite several web searches.KeiJidosha said:
It was my understanding that the EV Project does not end until April of 2013. Are you saying that the number of public stations installed by Dec. 31, 2011, will be the total ever deployed by Ecotality? Is there some "drop-dead" date for the funding I am not aware of? Your view is that their stated plans to install up to 5,000 public charging stations, including 300 L3 stations is just a fabrication and a lie? Can you supply any hard evidence of this, or is it simply speculation based on the fact that you don't see enough of it happening yet?TRONZ said:
ttweed said:
OK, I missed the "Dec 31, 2011 sunset clause on free charges and subsidized installs" statement. Is this "sunset" for both public and private installations, L2 and L3, Tony? They have to get them in by Dec. 31 or it's all on their dime or the customer's, w/ no federal reimbursement?TRONZ said:
> is going to prevent them from ever going in? )
From information posted in this thread, particularly Tony William's meeting report, and maybe some speculation, it is looking like the reason Ecotality has failed to install any significant number of charging stations is that their business model has not been attractive to any businesses. See:JCBNJB said:
So if a business wants to give away charges to draw customers they have to pay Ecotality as well as pay for the electricity. I wish that someone would find that under their DOE contract the terms of their agreements are in the public record, and find out for sure what deals they are offering. Or that some business which was offered a deal would speak on the record.TonyWilliams said:
That's one of my big questions. I've assumed that Coulomb (Chargepoint) and Ecotality (Blink) were each given separate territories by DOE, and that's why you see little overlap. Someone else said he thought Coulomb was operating without any of the government subsidies that Ecotality can tap. There are both free and paid Chargepoint stations, with the fee set by the property owner. So why is it that Coulomb has installed hundreds of stations while Ecotality has managed scarcely a dozen? Compare their maps: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=131039#p131039JCBNJB said:
JCBNJB said:
(And I am hoping it's not because there is a total lack of demand from organizations and businesses to put them in - see the Costco thread - because if that's the problem, then I would think we could get to work on that…
Hasn't ChargePoint been doing installs for years? Ecotality did their very first commercial installs in June.walterbays said:
walterbays said:
Randy said:
I'm not sure that's the main (or even an important) reason for a connected unit. It's mainly to facilitate billing, to provide usage info to the venue owner, and to monitor the units for maintenance purposes. The fact remains the Blink is supposed to be a commercial network, and it always was. If a business doesn't want the service Blink is offering, they can always buy units outright (i.e. coke from Costco) and install them. They become responsible for maintenance (and vandalism), and maybe take on more liability...and of course pay more up front, although there's a 30% tax credit available for just that sort of install. The grant was NOT only, or even mainly, to install free public charging, as some on here seem to think, but to jumpstart a commercial charging business...which we may be finding out isn't viable.wsbca said:
They left Andy until last, and the news was not heartening. He basically admitted that the original infrastructure estimates of the project were wildly optimistic, and that the reality of selling and installing public charging stations has been much more challenging than anyone expected, even with generous government subsidies. His presentation covered the current state of the project with names of contracted partners, maps of locations, numbers of current and projected installations (those in negotiations and/or site analysis), and he discussed the process and the specific difficulties (logistical/engineering/financial/legal, etc.) involved. There is a certain "chicken or egg" conundrum stifling sales due to the fact that a convincing business model cannot be presented without solid data on utilization, which could be used to calculate a projected ROI for owners, while the data cannot be collected without sufficient installations and users to generate it over time. The potential revenue is equally difficult to estimate without knowing what pricing schedule would be acceptable to users. He mentioned a figure of ~$1.50/hr. for L2 charging as being a likely charge for some stations after the end of the year, when the "free" period lapses. He touched on the problems with locating EVSEs at gas stations, which initially appear to be likely candidates, due to the safety considerations of mixing high voltage and flammable liquids, and at rest stops along freeways (another seemingly ideal location) due to lack of sufficient power supply, etc. In talking with the CCSE folks afterwards, I caught a glimpse of how difficult the actual process can be. Despite the fact that they were totally committed to the idea of providing EVSEs at their location, and have been onboard since the start of the project, they only completed their installation this last week, due to the complex negotiations required to achieve "buy-in" by all those involved. They, like many businesses, are leasing their office space. In order to install the EVSEs, they had to convince both the property manager and the owner of the property to go along with it. There were concerns of both these other parties regarding liability, risk, finances, specific location and parking disruption, etc., that had to be overcome one by one before any actual construction could take place. It is a very complex process, involving many different parties (and often their high-priced lawyers) with conflicting goals and desires in such a situation, and this is not uncommon for such an effort.Rusty said:
ttweed said:
Would one of those guys be named Angus Clark? I met him at the first Leaf tour event in SD and he told me about their plans. He was having L3 chargers built in China for ~$6K, so I imagine the storage systems would be similarly sourced. He said they may even have mobile L3 trucks as well. Their website is here: http://www.wix.com/evoasis/evoasis and shows sites planned for the airport and Encinitas as well as all the way up to Santa Barbara. He told me at the time that they were thinking of serving Hwy 1 all the way up to SF. They are in the UK too, and are basing their business model on a subscription service that seems pretty pricey to me--$90/mo. (plus electricity charges) is not something I am interested in signing up for to charge away from home, but then driving the Leaf to LA or SF is not on my agenda.TonyWilliams said:
ttweed said:
