Volt vs Leaf lease

[KeiJidosha]

Though Think sells 4-seaters over here and they have a 24kWh battery with MORE range, not less. And your link is for the Smart ED, not the Think City.
http://www.think.no/nor/THINK-City/THINK-City-4-seter

Yes. I would be smart to think Only a 2-seater in US for now, starting in summer

http://www.plugincars.com/exclusive-think-reveals-marketing-city-strategy-its-small-electric-car-106450.html

 

[AndyH]

This is somewhat off topic but one problem I have with free scheduled maintenance in general is the pressure this has placed on manufacturers to extend their service intervals. Using the BMW as an example, the service intervals are roughly 15,500 miles (it is dynamically calculated and varies a little depending on how the vehicle is driven). Now, I know that BMW uses a special and expensive LL1 synthetic oil (as do a number of other German manufacturers), but I still have a hard time wrapping my head around an oil change interval this long. Likewise their lifetime fill synthetic transmission and differential lubricants. I've changed the engine oil in mine at twice the recommended intervals (about 8,000 miles) and changed the transmission and differential fluids at 100K. It has rewarded me with 170,000 completely trouble free miles.
(By the way, I have long used synthetic lubricants in everything I own that has any kind of fluid in it... I'm a big proponent of them.)

mogur, changing engine oil too often will do more damage than running it until the oil life system tells you to change -- as long as you're using the man-made synthetic long-life oil that the oil life monitor is calibrated around. Unlike the US oil life monitors that do not have any sensors that touch the oil, the Euro systems have sensors in the oil pan that work with the computer models (all built with hundreds of thousands of oil analysis results). I've added oil to a Mercedes Sprinter van and watched the oil life display ADD miles to the oil life based on the improved properties of the oil in the sump. The sytem works and can be trusted!

I've been using premium man-made synthetic oil designed for long service intervals since 2002. I've been doing oil analysis since 1998. It took me three years of oil analysis results before I got thru my thick skull that a product designed for a 35,000 mile change interval is actually designed to run 35,000 miles between changes.

Engine oil is about 75-80% base oil. The remaining components are the 'additives' - the detergents, dispersants, anti-oxidants, anti-wear components, possibly viscosity improvers and friction modifiers. The first thing that happens after an oil change is the new detergents cleans the old additives off the metal engine parts. Next, the anti-wear additives (heat and pressure activated) plate on the metal parts. During the time in between the metal parts aren't protected as well and wear increases. Once again - the highest rates of wear during a normal oil change interval happen in the 200-3000 miles immediately after the oil is changed.

A word about synthetics in the USA and Europe. In Europe, 'synthetic' means man made - oil not derived from crude. These are polyalphaolephin (PAO) and/or ester based lubes. In the USA, man made synthetics (PAO and/or ester) are "synthetic", but so is Group III oil. Group III is petroleum oil that has been dewaxed and cracked in a high heat/high hydrogen environment. Dewaxing improves low temp performance; hydrogen bonding to the carbon chains improves the oxidation and nitration stability. Group III cannot be called 'synthetic ' in the rest of the world.

More than 50% of Euro drivers use man-made synthetics. A large percentage of the rest use Group III products or blends. In the US, only about 7% of drivers use 'synthetic' - and this number includes the PAO/ester products and the Group III products. The remaining 93% use petroleum.

Oil is not created equally, and the additive packages are not designed equally. The ACEA and Euro OEM specs are much stronger than SAE or ILSAC specs, though ILSAC is a great improvement to an SAE product.

My VW diesel shipped from the factory with PAO-based engine oil designed for 1 year or 10,000 miles of severe service in a high-soot environment. I bought the car with 200,000 miles on it (all original) and put another 197,000. The shortest oil change interval the car's had was 8000 miles (due to increased contamination from a performance chip that was dumping too much fuel). The longest interval (and my routine since 2004) is 2 years. I'm running an oil designed for a 1 year or 25,000 mile change interval and an additional oil filter that is 98.7% efficient at 1 micrometer.

Longer oil and filter change intervals have been proven since 1972. They reduce required service, provide lower wear and a clean engine, reduce the need for new oil and oil disposal, and reduce the total cost of ownership. That's at least a win-win-win-win-win-win. :lol:

 

[TomT]

First, I've never heard of or seen any data that changing oil too often is detrimental, except to your pocket book and perhaps the environment. Second, BMWs of my era of car do not use sensors, they use a system that assigns counts based on how long you drive for each startup, the temperature of the oil at startup and shutdown, how long you idle, and the mileage traveled. The more counts, the sooner it recommends an oil change. Oil analysis I've done has shown that I am in the sweet spot with my regime. The Vanos on early 2000's BMWs is particularly susceptible to oil quality and I suspect that the reason why I have had no problems with mine at such a high mileage is partially due to my oil change routine. BMW recommends an LL1 oil for my car and I believe they are now up to LL2 for their latest engines... I've been using synthetics since around 1980 by the way (primarily Mobil 1 in those days), and doing oil analysis since I owned my plane starting around the same time. One of the big drivers of longer oil change intervals (and spark plug life) for cars was the elimination of lead from fuel and the attendant acids and contaminants that they produced.

mogur, changing engine oil too often will do more damage than running it until the oil life system tells you to change -- as long as you're using the man-made synthetic long-life oil that the oil life monitor is calibrated around. Unlike the US oil life monitors that do not have any sensors that touch the oil, the Euro systems have sensors in the oil pan that work with the computer models (all built with hundreds of thousands of oil analysis results). I've added oil to a Mercedes Sprinter van and watched the oil life display ADD miles to the oil life based on the improved properties of the oil in the sump. The sytem works and can be trusted!

 

[AndyH]

First, I've never heard of or seen any data that changing oil too often is detrimental...

Taking this conversation off-topic: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2578