Volt vs. Leaf - What finally pushed you to the Leaf?

[Den]

Volt is just overpriced undersized PRIUS basically fully copied by GM from Toyota (and still wasted 1 billion of governments money just for coping others ideas) with fuel consumption 3 times more than Prius Plug-in. Why to buy this piece of ****?

I was more thinking between Leaf vs. Prius Plug-in. But also did a test-drive of Volt (Ampera) and realized that this is not an option at all - driving also sucks :/ Just nothing positive for Volt - only negs. :/

Finally I decided that I want as much electrical range as possible (and this is Leaf), also government grant was much more bigger for full EV than for PHEV.

 

[scottf200]

I didn't like the Volt at all. Seemed cramped. Had dumb non navigation touchscreen. Can't haul kids and kid crap very well. Car seats had no chance of fitting. It ended up in 4th place of 4 cars considered behind the leaf, prius, and dodge charger with a hemi. It was the most expensive also lease wise. So most expensive, least useful, and least comfortable. I guess if I was kid less and tiny it would be ok.

Depends on your stage of life and situation. I have two older kids. My wife and I took one of them back to college after springbreak last weekend. Folded one of the rear seats down. Had room for all his stuff. 130+ miles each way. Seats are very comfortable. Doesn't feel cramped to me and I'm no small guy. 21K out of 27K miles of electric on it so far and I've been doing more out of town trips. It handled a wicked storm last weekend as well. 40 cars in the ditch within the first 40 miles of leaving town (1hr). FWD, traction control and great stability control.

 

[SanDust]

Let's clear up two technical points first:

1. The Volt is not "just like" the Prius and anyone who thinks/claims this is either ignorant or has an agenda. They're not remotely the same. One is a parallel hybird. One is a serial hybrid. The closest car to the Volt would probably be the BMW i3, which uses the same type of gearing and, when equipped with a range extender, is getting close to being in the same class.

2. The Volt is more aerodynamic than the Leaf. We know that from the Argonne tests for power at the wheels. At 30 MPH the Volt needs 1 kW more power at the wheels than the Leaf. At 80 MPH the Leaf needs about 4 kW more.

You'll get about the same number of electric miles from both cars. The biggest factor in deciding between the two comes down to whether you're willing to be range limited in exchange for a simpler drive train and a cheaper price. The Volt is also more fun to drive and the Leaf more utilitarian, but those are probably minor factors.

Both work.

 

[Den]

Let's clear up two technical points first:

1. The Volt is not "just like" the Prius

:lol:

GM's lying dealer detected :mrgreen:

You'll get about the same number of electric miles from both cars.

:shock: :lol:

 

[Smidge204]

GM's lying dealer detected :mrgreen:

To be fair, the Volt and Prius are, in fact, quite different machines. But the claim that you'll get the same all-electric miles out of both is... spurious.

I recall it was worked out that at distances under ~200 miles without recharging, the Prius is a better vehicle for fuel economy. With recharging more often than than, the Volt burns less fuel. This didn't factor in the plug-in version of the Prius, but given the differences in the two vehicles there's probably a very similar range where the advantage flips from one to the other.
=Smidge=

 

[IBELEAF]

Having owned all 3 cars for sometime I have to say I enjoy Volt the most. It's looks good, great handling and I know I can get anywhere without needing to look for charging stations. Also, it's completely different from Prius, which btw I just couldn't stand. Aside from great MPG on gas I hated the interior and overall driving experience.

 

[Den]

GM's lying dealer detected :mrgreen:

To be fair, the Volt and Prius are, in fact, quite different machines.

Only at speeds till 70mph (and actually Volt is looser here with 3 times higher fuel consumption). After 70mph it is absolutely same "parallel" hybrid copied from Toyota. Volt can't drive only on electric motor at 70mph and higher - it uses both (same like Prius), also in some modes it does this at any speed.

GM is just lying to Americans trying to present Volt as something different than Prius. It's somehow different but even in those differences it is worst than Prius.

 

[IBELEAF]

Only at speeds till 70mph (and actually Volt is looser here with 3 times higher fuel consumption). After 70mph it is absolutely same "parallel" hybrid copied from Toyota. Volt can't drive only on electric motor at 70mph and higher - it uses both (same like Prius), also in some modes it does this at any speed.

GM is just lying to Americans trying to present Volt as something different than Prius. It's somehow different but even in those differences it is worst than Prius.

Looks like you are clueless about Volt, it can go up 100 mph and all electric power.

 

[planet4ever]

Volt can't drive only on electric motor at 70mph and higher

Old wives tale, totally debunked. You'd better get your facts straight if you expect anyone here to listen to you. I'm almost ready to add you to my very short foes list.

Ray

 

[SanDust]

But the claim that you'll get the same all-electric miles out of both is... spurious.

The conclusion just falls out of the statistics. If there are 2x more days when you go over 75 miles than there are days when you go between 40 and 75 miles, the Volt has to get more EV miles. This follows from the fact that 2(40) > 35. (This understates the Volt's advantage because on days when the Leaf goes over 40 miles it probably doesn't go 75 miles, whereas the Volt will always go 40 EV miles on days it goes over 70 miles). That's "on average". Driving habits can vary, but overall and for the average driver the Volt will put on more EV miles.

This is also consistent with the numbers discussed earlier. The Leaf may be disadvantaged a bit by the fact that there are many Leafs in Japan where the annual miles driven are relatively low, but that disadvantage is more than cancelled by the fact that Japan has a much milder driver cycle so the Leaf has more range.

"Fuel economy" is a completely different concept. But voltstats.net, which shows the median Volt driver getting 175 MPG, just confirms the obvious, which is that a serial hybrid will burn way less fuel than a parallel hybrid. But we've always known that.

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

I drove both. First off, I can't afford the Volt. My friend's payment is TRIPPLE mine. Secondly, I don't fit in the Volt. It is so damn small on the inside I felt like I was in a sardine can. I could not even see the trafic lights because the front window is cut so low. I also don't care for the styling. However, most think I am crazy to drive a Leaf that resembles a turtle more than a car! :lol:

What I also noticed is that it is a keenly engineered machine that has thought of everything. Sporty handling, gas backup for unhampered range, variable amperage for charging, cooled battery packs, battery capacity only used between 20% and 80%. Hell, If it doesn't catch fire, I think an average Volt will outlast an average Leaf, and is probably a superior car. Will you get to drive it FOR FREE!!!!, naaa.

 

[Smidge204]

The conclusion just falls out of the statistics. If there are 2x more days when you go over 75 miles than there are days when you go between 40 and 75 miles, the Volt has to get more EV miles. This follows from the fact that 2(40) > 35. (This understates the Volt's advantage because on days when the Leaf goes over 40 miles it probably doesn't go 75 miles, whereas the Volt will always go 40 EV miles on days it goes over 70 miles). That's "on average". Driving habits can vary, but overall and for the average driver the Volt will put on more EV miles.

We're talking Volt vs. PiP, nothing LEAF related.


Volt: 38 miles all-electric
Plug-in Prius: 11 miles all-electric

There is no magical statistics calculation required for this comparison, and the LEAF's performance is wholly irrelevant.
=Smidge=

 

[scottf200]

The conclusion just falls out of the statistics. If there are 2x more days when you go over 75 miles than there are days when you go between 40 and 75 miles, the Volt has to get more EV miles. This follows from the fact that 2(40) > 35. (This understates the Volt's advantage because on days when the Leaf goes over 40 miles it probably doesn't go 75 miles, whereas the Volt will always go 40 EV miles on days it goes over 70 miles). That's "on average". Driving habits can vary, but overall and for the average driver the Volt will put on more EV miles.

We're talking Volt vs. PiP, nothing LEAF related.
Volt: 38 miles all-electric
Plug-in Prius: 11 miles all-electric
There is no magical statistics calculation required for this comparison, and the LEAF's performance is wholly irrelevant.
=Smidge=

Why is the PIP even in the thread title is Volt vs LEAF. That completely technically ignorant (lack of knowledge) person (Den) brought up the Prius and does not even understanding the basics that the Volt will use up the battery before switching to gas (ie. up to 101 max speed and even on hard acceleration).

Sandust's comments are related to and echo LEAF/Volt owner adricc's thread: Volt Vs. Leaf practical range comparison
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9576" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[supra410]

Guilty!

My sarcastic remark has snowballed into a different tangent.

 

[RonDawg]

I didn't like the Volt at all. Seemed cramped. Had dumb non navigation touchscreen. Can't haul kids and kid crap very well. Car seats had no chance of fitting. It ended up in 4th place of 4 cars considered behind the leaf, prius, and dodge charger with a hemi. It was the most expensive also lease wise. So most expensive, least useful, and least comfortable. I guess if I was kid less and tiny it would be ok.

That's an unusual choice of candidate, given the other three. It's almost like one of those logic questions that asks you which of the following does not belong in this list:

A) Leaf
B) Prius
C) Volt
D) Dodge Charger with a Hemi

 

[SanDust]

We're talking Volt vs. PiP, nothing LEAF related.

I was actually talking about the Leaf and the Volt but in rereading my post I can see how you got thought otherwise. Completely agree that you'll get more EV miles from the Volt.

I was making a more subtle point, which is that a driver with an average usage pattern will get more EV miles from a Volt than from a Leaf. That's easy to miss.

 

[Herm]

Volt: 38 miles all-electric
Plug-in Prius: 11 miles all-electric

Just a quick note that if you can get 11 miles out of PIP you can get 50 miles out of a Volt and perhaps 100 miles out of a Leaf.. all require careful driving. The PIP is actually rated by the EPA at 6 miles of range due to its weak performance.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...I was making a more subtle point, which is that a driver with an average usage pattern will get more EV miles from a Volt than from a Leaf. That's easy to miss.

I don't buy this. It assumes that the average LEAF driver never exceeds the ~40 mile Volt electric range. If a LEAF driver regularly, occasionally, or even once exceeds that range they are doing so without using gasoline, which is the point of the LEAF and something a Volt can't match.

Your statement assumes more trips, in absolute numbers not mileage, beyond LEAF range—requiring the backup ICE car—than trips beyond Volt electric range but within LEAF range. While likely true for some households, but not others, your blanket statement is a stretch. "Statistics" depend a whole lot on the underlying assumptions.

 

[scottf200]

...I was making a more subtle point, which is that a driver with an average usage pattern will get more EV miles from a Volt than from a Leaf. That's easy to miss.

I don't buy this. It assumes that the average LEAF driver never exceeds the ~40 mile Volt electric range. If a LEAF driver regularly, occasionally, or even once exceeds that range they are doing so without using gasoline, which is the point of the LEAF and something a Volt can't match.

Your statement assumes more trips, in absolute numbers not mileage, beyond LEAF range—requiring the backup ICE car—than trips beyond Volt electric range but within LEAF range. While likely true for some households, but not others, your blanket statement is a stretch. "Statistics" depend a whole lot on the underlying assumptions.

Did you read the discussion here:
LEAF/Volt owner adricc's thread: Volt Vs. Leaf practical range comparison
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9576" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[smkettner]

That's an unusual choice of candidate, given the other three. It's almost like one of those logic questions that asks you which of the following does not belong in this list:

A) Leaf
B) Prius
C) Volt
D) Dodge Charger with a Hemi

3 of the 4 does something exceptional. One is a crossover trying to do everything and so it excels at nothing. Sorry Volt you are out.