WA SB 5251 : $100 annual fee for EVs (was EV Tax)

[MythicSeabass]

At least they added the provision
"The fee is repealed if a vehicle miles traveled tax or fee is imposed."
So if we move to a better form of use tax, this won't just keep riding along on top of it.
I guess I need to figure out about how much my wife was paying in gas tax a year and then see.
I am pretty sure this will be more. Seeing as her last car only had 76000 miles in 11.5 years. And most of those miles were put on me in the first year we had it.

 

[Herm]

The fees also need to be raised quite a bit if we really want to fund proper maintenance of the road infrastructure. Currently only a small portion of the money comes from the gas tax.

Careful on that!, road maintenance is done by the local government and you know how efficient they are.. you probably cant raise enough money to keep them satisfied.

 

[garygid]

Many Freeways are in terrible shape.

Some city (more-main) streets are kept up, but many side streets are in quite poor repair.

It is not clear where the gas taxes go.

 

[AndyH]

So, the LOL that drives her EV just 1000 miles a year gets socked with 10¢ a mile for her "access" while Big-Rig trucks traveling perhaps 100,000 miles get charged only $30 per year?

The big truck's average 180,000 miles per year, at the 4-6mpg of diesel, means they're burning between 30,000 and 45,000 gallons of fuel. So it's $30 + a TON of fuel taxes.

EVs should get a 1¢ per mile BONUS (credit) for non-polution and and another 2¢ per mile for progress towards oil-independence.

Agreed. Unfortunately, I'll bet that lower cash flow from fuel taxes isn't seen as a positive.

Certainly something more fair is easy to do, but legislation against the less-vocal, less-powerful groups is apparently a legislative speciality, since not many votes are lost.

I sure hope that EVs don't get legislated out of existence.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"
Ultimately it's going to be on 'us'...

 

[DaveEV]

The big truck's average 180,000 miles per year, at the 4-6mpg of diesel, means they're burning between 30,000 and 45,000 gallons of fuel. So it's $30 + a TON of fuel taxes.

Yeah, but even at 5 mpg, big trucks do WAY more than 9x the road damage of a 45 mpg Prius not to mention your typical 20-25 mpg vehicle.

While heavy vehicles tend to use more fuel, it doesn't account for the additional damage they do. Just google "vehicle weight road damage"...

 

[Anonymous]

The big truck's average 180,000 miles per year, at the 4-6mpg of diesel, means they're burning between 30,000 and 45,000 gallons of fuel. So it's $30 + a TON of fuel taxes.

Yeah, but even at 5 mpg, big trucks do WAY more than 9x the road damage of a 45 mpg Prius not to mention your typical 20-25 mpg vehicle.

While heavy vehicles tend to use more fuel, it doesn't account for the additional damage they do. Just google "vehicle weight road damage"...

My understanding (which of course could be incorrect) is that truckers and trucking companies also have to pay additional roadway fees which help offset that difference as well. Gas tax and licensing taxes are not the only things that truckers pay.

 

[AndyH]

The big truck's average 180,000 miles per year, at the 4-6mpg of diesel, means they're burning between 30,000 and 45,000 gallons of fuel. So it's $30 + a TON of fuel taxes.

Yeah, but even at 5 mpg, big trucks do WAY more than 9x the road damage of a 45 mpg Prius not to mention your typical 20-25 mpg vehicle.

While heavy vehicles tend to use more fuel, it doesn't account for the additional damage they do. Just google "vehicle weight road damage"...

My understanding (which of course could be incorrect) is that truckers and trucking companies also have to pay additional roadway fees which help offset that difference as well. Gas tax and licensing taxes are not the only things that truckers pay.

Absolutely right! I'm not a trucker, but have a number of small trucking companies as clients. They pay plenty for the roads.

As an extra whammie, when we moved to ultra low sulfur diesel fuel in ~2007, it allowed significantly better emissions standards and use of EGR, catalytic converters and diesel particulate filters -- much cleaner vehicles and much less smoke! But the fuel economy dropped from 5-7MPG to 4-6MPG...and oil change intervals shrunk...and at ~11 gallons of oil per engine... The air's cleaner but the industry uses more crude per mile than before. Three cheers for unintended consequences...

edit... Here's a number or two for the US...
http://www.truckinfo.net/trucking/stats.htm

-- ~2 million tractor/trailers on the road in the US (15.5 million total commercial trucks)

-- The transportation industry paid $37.4 billion in federal and state highway-user taxes. Commercial trucks make up 12.5 percent of all registered vehicles, but paid 36.5 percent of total highway-user taxes in 2006.

-- How much does the trucking industry pay to operate on our roads?
Estimates of 21.4 billions dollars is produced annually and paid by the trucking industry

 

[jkyu99]

Gotta get my congressman to introduce a $100 annual per bicycle tax too. Those darn things keep using the roads and don't pay a gasoline tax either. :evil:
They keep slowing down traffic and increase the pollution per mile for all those ICEs.

 

[SteveInSeattle]

We're saving over $3,000 in State Sales tax, so even with a $100 a year fee were better off for at least 30 years.

 

[evnow]

We're saving over $3,000 in State Sales tax, so even with a $100 a year fee were better off for at least 30 years.

Yes - thats why I'm not too bothered about this. Still, unfortunate they even bothered to spend time on this given minimal revenue impact.

 

[evnow]

The fees also need to be raised quite a bit if we really want to fund proper maintenance of the road infrastructure. Currently only a small portion of the money comes from the gas tax.

Careful on that!, road maintenance is done by the local government and you know how efficient they are.. you probably cant raise enough money to keep them satisfied.

Doesn't matter - citizens get the govt they deserve. Viaduct replacement should be coming from these funds - not something else.

 

[thew]

What a Joke, Will they Tax a person on a Bike, or a Skate board? The fact that we all are trying to move away from OIL and Gas powered cars. Only to be hit with a Tax for not using Gas is completely at Odds with the idea of the EV.. Washington / Oregon both need to be slapped for such a stupid idea.. EVers are already paying a premium for the EV.. The fact that they do not use Gas is a good thing! Don't punish us for it.. Wow.. who is making up this Bill OPEC?

 

[thew]

I think in CA the gas-tax is no longer dedicated to roads, so we have a lot of roads in poor repair, with them getting worse.

Yup, and they keep raiding the kitty to pay for debt.. But what it seems folks are forgetting is that you Car registration is supposed to pay for the Road Maintenance from all cars.. So if Wa and Oregon need more funds for the roads they should raise everyone's Registration Tax to offset it.. But as a California that will be moving to Oregon I can tell you first hand the Roads in Oregon are 1000% better than California Roads. Oregon actually repairs roads.. California simply charges you for the right to use them and then pays the Governor to watch pay per view with it..

No New Taxes!..

 

[planet4ever]

What a defeatist attitude! California doesn't repair its highways because CalTrans doesn't have enough money. CalTrans doesn't have enough money because the Republicans refuse to allow tax levels (in particular, vehicle taxes) to be returned to what they used to be before they were slashed in an ill-guided attempt to squeeze blood from a turnip.

To mangle the metaphor, squeezing the turnip didn't yield blood, just potholes.

Ray

 

[Gonewild]

No sales taxes and only $100 road tax a year. Where do I signup? That is cheap. The rest of the nation has to pay sales taxes.

 

[thew]

What a defeatist attitude! California doesn't repair its highways because CalTrans doesn't have enough money. CalTrans doesn't have enough money because the Republicans refuse to allow tax levels (in particular, vehicle taxes) to be returned to what they used to be before they were slashed in an ill-guided attempt to squeeze blood from a turnip.

To mangle the metaphor, squeezing the turnip didn't yield blood, just potholes.

Ray

Have you not paid your Reg this year yet.. My 1996 Econline Van VLF fees went back up to the cost to reg it when it was new.. I paid $489 bucks this year and only $129 last year for it (For a 1996) .. California did Raise the VLF fees by about 50% for all cars.. And still we have crappy roads as the state keeps raiding the kitty.. They can raise the Tax all they want but the roads will not get better until they start fixing them..

Not sure what is defeatist about that.. its simply the facts.

And that is why we are moving to Brookings Oregon.. No Sales Tax and they somehow manage to keep the roads in decent shape even being a very poor out of work state.. Its all about how the money is spent.. Not the amount they rob from us.

 

[thew]

No sales taxes and only $100 road tax a year. Where do I signup? That is cheap. The rest of the nation has to pay sales taxes.

You do realize that the Car registration in all states is supposed to pay for the Roads etc.. So even Oregon with its "no sales tax" is already taxing its drivers for the use of its roads. And one can argue that the lack of Sales tax is why Oregon is so poor.. Also Oregon has higher than avarage State income Tax to offset the "No sales tax" so nothing is free .

But I agree. I will be moving to Oregon as soon as I can Not for the lack of Sale tax but instead because the folks are nice and grounded..

Not like my Native home state of California the "Give-me State" .

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i have to agree that the sales tax waiver is a fair trade off ($3000 verses $100) but at the same time there are NEVs running around that did not get the waiver (i did not get one on my Zenn purchase in 2007) that dont drive very much.

they would be penalized and there needs to be a concession to them since they are the true "bleeding edge" and pioneers in going green.

 

[thew]

i have to agree that the sales tax waiver is a fair trade off ($3000 verses $100) but at the same time there are NEVs running around that did not get the waiver (i did not get one on my Zenn purchase in 2007) that dont drive very much.

they would be penalized and there needs to be a concession to them since they are the true "bleeding edge" and pioneers in going green.

Yup same here with our ZAP.. And also the Feds are backing the EV rebates even for the states.. so don't be fooled.. we are paving the way for the rest of the nation. Until EVs are every where All EVs should be Taxed at Registration and not simply asked to pay an EV fee because we are no longer buying Gas.. I mean really, we want to encourage this type of thing..

 

[Anonymous]

i have to agree that the sales tax waiver is a fair trade off ($3000 verses $100) but at the same time there are NEVs running around that did not get the waiver (i did not get one on my Zenn purchase in 2007) that dont drive very much.

they would be penalized and there needs to be a concession to them since they are the true "bleeding edge" and pioneers in going green.

I thought that the NEVs (and Xebras, since they are motorcycles) were exempt from the $100 ev tax?