Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

[UBUYGAS]

Yeah, used car purchase is a gamble. Has been since the dawn of time. But that is the price we pay for used car savings, right?

I've been enjoying my paid-off LEAF but the range is really bad and a PIA. I need a longer range EV but I do not want to pay $60,000

I also DO NOT want to pay $46,000 for a 62kWh LEAF.

I'm pretty sure I am going to buy a USED 2016 New nose Tesla Model S 90D with 50K miles for $49,000 with FREE Lifetime SuperCharging. (If the old nose cone doesn't bother you they start right now as low as $29,900)

I think my money is much better spent on a Tesla that was $125,000 3 years ago and has FREE superCharging.

No matter how hard I try I cannot make myself buy the base model 3, I want AWD and when I add that to the Model 3 with AP & FSD it's $60,000 and I DO NOT want to spend that much.

https://www.tesla.com/used/5YJSA1DN9DFP27937

 

[Valdemar]

CPO doesn't extend the original battery and drive unit warranty. Just an FYI. I am looking at CPOs too, but want to wait until there is more data about cars with expired warranties. Having to pay for a new battery pack 2 years from the purchase or even a drive unit would be unfortunate.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Yeah, used car purchase is a gamble. Has been since the dawn of time. But that is the price we pay for used car savings, right?

I've been enjoying my paid-off LEAF but the range is really bad and a PIA. I need a longer range EV but I do not want to pay $60,000

I also DO NOT want to pay $46,000 for a 62kWh LEAF.

I'm pretty sure I am going to buy a USED 2016 New nose Tesla Model S 90D with 50K miles for $49,000 with FREE Lifetime SuperCharging. (If the old nose cone doesn't bother you they start right now as low as $29,900)

I think my money is much better spent on a Tesla that was $125,000 3 years ago and has FREE superCharging.

No matter how hard I try I cannot make myself buy the base model 3, I want AWD and when I add that to the Model 3 with AP & FSD it's $60,000 and I DO NOT want to spend that much.

https://www.tesla.com/used/5YJSA1DN9DFP27937

You think the ePlus is too expensive, but are paying $20k extra (and more than an ePlus) for a used Tesla with a nose you like better?

 

[cwerdna]

And, Model S isn’t known for great reliability. Besides the DU and battery pack, don’t be too surprised if you need to spend pretty big $ to repair/replace the door handles, the MCU, touch screen and half shafts (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/clunking-sound-is-costing-me-a-bundle-to-fix-out-of-warranty.93857/ ). And, you may have to worry about this after warranty:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/cracked-forelink.95637/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/another-front-suspension-control-arm-failure.114967/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/fore-link-suspension-failure-while-driving-on-the-freeway.141701/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/holy-crap-repairs-are-insanely-expensive-beware.86514/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/tesla-upper-control-arm-cracked.96329/

The (overpriced at) $46K Leaf Plus is eligible for $7500 Federal tax credit. I know you posted at a bunch of places on FB last month but we responded that the 238 mile EPA range rated Bolts were being heavily discounted (e.g. $6K+ off MSRP, and I’d recently seen supposedly $10K off) and they were eligible for $7500 Federal tax credit until 3/31/19, now $3750.

But, alas, both of the above vehicles aren’t good road trip vehicles (if that matters) due to slower charging speeds and spotty DC FC network.

I certainly wouldn’t want to spend $49K on a used S vs. say a $33K (LT trim) to $37-ishK (loaded Premier) before $7500 Federal tax credit Bolt w/DC FCing unless I was prepared to dump it once the warranty's up.

And, the S is kinda inefficient vs. the Bolt and Leaf: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=38569&id=33368&id=33558&id=40520.

Also, I haven’t had the time (nor inclination) to read all 104 pages of https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/if-you-fast-charge-tesla-will-permanently-throttle-charging.90230/. I frankly don’t care. The S was out of the picture for me ages ago. I ruled out the 3 for various reasons.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Yeah, used car purchase is a gamble. Has been since the dawn of time. But that is the price we pay for used car savings, right?

I've been enjoying my paid-off LEAF but the range is really bad and a PIA. I need a longer range EV but I do not want to pay $60,000

I also DO NOT want to pay $46,000 for a 62kWh LEAF.

I'm pretty sure I am going to buy a USED 2016 New nose Tesla Model S 90D with 50K miles for $49,000 with FREE Lifetime SuperCharging. (If the old nose cone doesn't bother you they start right now as low as $29,900)

I think my money is much better spent on a Tesla that was $125,000 3 years ago and has FREE superCharging.

No matter how hard I try I cannot make myself buy the base model 3, I want AWD and when I add that to the Model 3 with AP & FSD it's $60,000 and I DO NOT want to spend that much.

https://www.tesla.com/used/5YJSA1DN9DFP27937

Sal I understand where you are coming from as I almost bought a CPO Tesla as well but realize the perceived battery longevity is only a small part of the overall picture. We aren't really fully aware of how these things stand up long term. The Oldest S on the road is what? 7 years old? That is not a track record I want to bank a $50,000 (I was looking at $42,000) bet on.

 

[SageBrush]

CPO doesn't extend the original battery and drive unit warranty. Just an FYI. I am looking at CPOs too, but want to wait until there is more data about cars with expired warranties. Having to pay for a new battery pack 2 years from the purchase or even a drive unit would be unfortunate.

I'm under the impression that CPO has its own warranty

https://www.autotrader.com/car-shopping/cpo-program-review-tesla-239862

 

[Valdemar]

CPO doesn't extend the original battery and drive unit warranty. Just an FYI. I am looking at CPOs too, but want to wait until there is more data about cars with expired warranties. Having to pay for a new battery pack 2 years from the purchase or even a drive unit would be unfortunate.

I'm under the impression that CPO has its own warranty

https://www.autotrader.com/car-shopping/cpo-program-review-tesla-239862

Except for the battery and the DU if I'm reading this correctly.

 

[SageBrush]

^^
I see, but I take that to mean that the original warranty continues as it would have for first owner.

Addendum:
https://www.tesla.com/blog/infinite-mile-warranty

 

[tesleaf]

Yeah, used car purchase is a gamble. Has been since the dawn of time. But that is the price we pay for used car savings, right?

I've been enjoying my paid-off LEAF but the range is really bad and a PIA. I need a longer range EV but I do not want to pay $60,000

I also DO NOT want to pay $46,000 for a 62kWh LEAF.

I'm pretty sure I am going to buy a USED 2016 New nose Tesla Model S 90D with 50K miles for $49,000 with FREE Lifetime SuperCharging. (If the old nose cone doesn't bother you they start right now as low as $29,900)

I think my money is much better spent on a Tesla that was $125,000 3 years ago and has FREE superCharging.

No matter how hard I try I cannot make myself buy the base model 3, I want AWD and when I add that to the Model 3 with AP & FSD it's $60,000 and I DO NOT want to spend that much.

https://www.tesla.com/used/5YJSA1DN9DFP27937

I ended up selling my 2015 Leaf and purchased a 2019 Model 3 last week.
My commute is 25 miles per day round trip but I wanted the luxury of taking the EV on an occasional road trip such as Portland to Seattle.
My total came to $40200 + Tax for a 240 mile rated RWD Model 3. And I will get back $3750 next Feb from IRS. From ordering on my phone to delivery took only 4 days.
I love the acceleration, rated at 5.3 sec 0-60mph.
And seeing 200+ miles on the battery level excites me.
My forum handle, tesleaf, was picked even before I bought the Leaf. I guess I always wanted a Tesla.
The Leaf was a perfect commuter car for me. However, I wanted more fun in my EV, and the Model 3 SR+ is a good combination at a reasonable price.

 

[Valdemar]

^^
I see, but I take that to mean that the original warranty continues as it would have for first owner.

Addendum:
https://www.tesla.com/blog/infinite-mile-warranty

Right, but this also means if you get a 6 y/o car you only have 2 years of warranty left. Tesla is quick to replace faulty batteries when under warranty to keep things quiet, but out of warranty experience may not be as pleasant. I will not be surprised if used Tesla values plummet after a couple of stories surface about $20-$30k out of pocket battery replacements, that's why I'm in no rush to jump on a CPO offer just yet no matter how attractive it might be. All the whine about the Leaf battery cost fades in comparison what one should expect to spend on a used Tesla.

 

[Lothsahn]

^^
I see, but I take that to mean that the original warranty continues as it would have for first owner.

Addendum:
https://www.tesla.com/blog/infinite-mile-warranty

Right, but this also means if you get a 6 y/o car you only have 2 years of warranty left. Tesla is quick to replace faulty batteries when under warranty to keep things quiet, but out of warranty experience may not be as pleasant. I will not be surprised if used Tesla values plummet after a couple of stories surface about $20-$30k out of pocket battery replacements, that's why I'm in no rush to jump on a CPO offer just yet no matter how attractive it might be. All the whine about the Leaf battery cost fades in comparison what one should expect to spend on a used Tesla.

In all fairness, the battery in a Tesla would have to get really bad to need to be replaced. I mean, cells could fail and the car could stop operating--which would warrant replacement... but given I really only need a 30 mile range in the winter (but really want 40-50), that means I could deal with a Tesla that was up to 80% degraded.

We'll see how bad it is--and it could get really ugly, but when you start a 300 miles instead of 80, it makes a big difference in how worn out the battery can be before it's useless.

 

[Valdemar]

Who knows if Tesla batteries gradually lose capacity to very low levels like the Leaf or just go kaput. The anecdotal evidence suggests the latter. Only time will tell.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Who knows if Tesla batteries gradually lose capacity to very low levels like the Leaf or just go kaput. The anecdotal evidence suggests the latter. Only time will tell.

Hopefully they don't just go kablooey...

 

[cwerdna]

Who knows if Tesla batteries gradually lose capacity to very low levels like the Leaf or just go kaput. The anecdotal evidence suggests the latter. Only time will tell.

Hopefully they don't just go kablooey...

I agree w/Valdemar. Significant capacity loss doesn't seem to be a problem on Model S. However, there are plenty of reports of packs being replaced in their entirety for whatever reason on the S over on TMC which kinda resets the clock or throws it off, as often, replacement packs are refurbs. Since they contain thousands of cells, they're probably difficult for SCs to be able to economically and quickly repair, so swapping packs is likely WAY more efficient (in terms of time) for them.

Edmunds needed one before 20K miles (https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-is-the-third-drive-unit-the-charm.html). See https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/wrap-up.html under Maintenance & Repairs for all the other issues they had.

Here are two recent examples:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/hv-battery-getting-replaced.147839/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/what-battery-failure-looks-like.143256/ - ugh, I wish this guy would use the right units.

I'm sure many more can by found by Googling for stuff like this:
site:teslamotorsclub.com "model s" pack replacement
site:teslamotorsclub.com "model s" pack replaced
site:teslamotorsclub.com "model s" battery replaced

UBUYGAS should keep in mind that automakers have a financial incentive to keep their warranty costs down. After the warranty's over, the incentive for parts to not fail isn't so strong.

 

[Valdemar]

Did Tesla start to sell replacement parts to general public or one still has to go through their service centers? Not the battery, but things like door handles, etc.

 

[garsh]

What part? The used car part?

The part where you said "Bolt" in response to someone saying that they wished they had bought a Volt.

 

[jdcbomb]

Ran into a colleague at work in the parking lot who stated he will be getting a "re-built" LEAF battery for his out of warranty 2011 vehicle...in the USA. I didn't get a chance to ask him details as he said he found this online. Is he mistaking this for the Japan only program or is there something new here?

 

[Lothsahn]

Ran into a colleague at work in the parking lot who stated he will be getting a "re-built" LEAF battery for his out of warranty 2011 vehicle...in the USA. I didn't get a chance to ask him details as he said he found this online. Is he mistaking this for the Japan only program or is there something new here?

I am not aware of any refurb program in the US. When I called a couple months ago, I was told that it was Japan only. Only options for US owners are:
1) buy a new battery (~$8000)
2) get a junkyard battery and swap cells
3) get a junkyard battery for same MY, swap batteries, and have a friendly dealer activate the battery (assuming any will)
4) Hope Fenix Systems works out (~$99/mth)
5) Buy a different car

 

[SalisburySam]

Only options for US owners are:
1) buy a new battery (~$8000)
2) get a junkyard battery and swap cells
3) get a junkyard battery for same MY, swap batteries, and have a friendly dealer activate the battery (assuming any will)
4) Hope Fenix Systems works out (~$99/mth)
5) Buy a different car

Agree, good assessment. For my case options 1, 2, and 3 are all non-starters. Option 4 could work and I’m one of the first 100 depositors. Option 5 is the easiest and best, and ultimately what I did. Still have the LEAF though betting on the come for Option 4.

 

[LeftieBiker]

There may be yet another option: buy new cells to replace the worst ones. My bike was converted using new Leaf cells bought from a hybrid car specialty shop in...2014? They were new 2013 cells - likely Canary chemistry but they have held up in the Vectrix well, so far.

EDIT: the site still exists, but has zero Leaf cells or modules in stock. They were also selling tested used ones the last few years. Oh well...