What experiments for today?

[ruimegas]

Based on your experience what's your advice to do 90 miles with one charge and no Highway, just secondary roads, max speed 56 miles ?

Thank you

I'm not seeing a massive amount of difference in consumption at any highway speed up to 65mph (clearly though, 70mph is a very different story), and I'm routinely coming in at 66% discharged for my 61 miles with an "apparent" 25 to 30 miles left. So 85-90 miles on a charge (where the terrain is relatively flat) should (IMO) be doable without paying much attention to speed, and that would be without ECO (though also without Climate Control). Stoaty's 100 miles might be pushing it for me though.

You understand though that it's all conjecture until it's actually tried, right? And never more than here, it's important to note...."your mileage may vary"!

I understand it quite well mwalsh but IMHO you are, until now, the most acurate to provide data as a owner of a LEAF all over the world (You know I'm from Portugal don't you ?). That's why, specially based on your amazing normal driving videos, make me believe you are in the best position to tell us right now what to expect from our Leaf's. Thank you again for give me hope for my 90 miles trip.

 

[Train]

I would also be interested in how the range changes if one slows to 50 MPH (doable on L.A. freeways if one stays in the right lane).

I would never do 50 in a 65, electric vehicle or otherwise.

 

[mwalsh]

I would never do 50 in a 65, electric vehicle or otherwise. That's 5 below what the trucks do.

If the traffic flow is just right, you can do 50mph and keep in with the other vehicles. It's just a really rare occurrence and either the traffic is too heavy and comes to a stop too many times, or it's too light and everybody is winging along at a much higher speed.

 

[Stoaty]

I would never do 50 in a 65, electric vehicle or otherwise.

To each his own. I have been driving 55 (often 53) on L.A. freeway commute 20 miles each way for 18 months. In that time, I have had one or two rude drivers, no other problems. Even when the traffic isn't heavy enough that everyone has to slow down, it hasn't been an issue.

 

[Train]

If that works for you, great. Just be watchful of those crazy CA drivers.

 

[TomT]

YOU'RE the one!!! <Grin>

I have been driving 55 (often 53) on L.A. freeway commute 20 miles each way for 18 months.

 

[smkettner]

To each his own. I have been driving 55 (often 53) on L.A. freeway commute 20 miles each way for 18 months. In that time, I have had one or two rude drivers, no other problems. Even when the traffic isn't heavy enough that everyone has to slow down, it hasn't been an issue.

Why is it safe to come up on someone and then pass at the last second at 15 mph differential but when someone else does it when you are a little under the limit suddenly it is dangerous and you are in the way. :roll: Drive safe out there.

 

[mwalsh]

OK, it's time to get back to it being all about ME!

Yesterday was a bit of a frustrating day. You already know how my drive to work went - the time I was able to drive 70mph REALLY sucked up the juice, so let's turn our attention to the drive home....

I had already told you that I was going to try ECO mode as a method of boosting regen. On the surface of things, it looks like this strategy may have been a good one - I arrived home with two white bars remaining when, with only 58% SOC remaining from leaving work, I really should have been thinking about being in red bar territory.

Checking the SOC in the OP (Owner's Portal) confirmed this supposition, in that I still appeared to have 33% SOC remaining. However it's a little more complex than that - when I went back to the car and turned it on to mess with my non-functional Carwings issue, I managed to suck enough juice from the pack that I lost one of the two bars and SOC dropped to 25% in the OP.

BTW, this makes it pretty conclusive that juice is indeed sucked from the main pack even when the car isn't moving, and I'm personally left being quite unsure just what the point of the 12v battery is.

It also means that the percentage of charge showing in the OP could represent any part of the ~8% of charge contained within the last bar showing. So I'm now thinking I'm using closer to 75% of my SOC daily and not the 66% I had previously surmised, but I need way more datapoints to confirm that. All I can say for sure now is that I'm generally arriving at work with between ~54% and 67% (30.5 miles @ 65mph) remaining and arriving home with between 25% and 33% remaining (30.5 miles in slow-and-go traffic).

Getting back to the actual experiment again - getting the car in and out of ECO using the mouse-thing was a bit of a pain in the rear, and it left me wishing for an easier (and steering wheel mounted) method of switching back and forth. Maybe a better use for that (IMO) next to useless range-circle-map-display-button-thingy? I dare say I could get more used to doing it, just like I'm used to being able to shift a manual transmission car without thinking about it. But yesterday it just felt awkward and distracting, so generally not good.

If you've seen this thread - http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=2331 - you'll know that I'm being punished for the 70mph speeds yesterday with a loss in available range - down to 90 miles from high 90s to low 100s. So today I'm going to go ECO all day to a) see what that does to my day end SOC and b) see if the car deems me worthy of receiving my miles back tomorrow morning.

 

[JasonT]

BTW, this makes it pretty conclusive that juice is indeed sucked from the main pack even when the car isn't moving.

I thought we already knew this. Doesn't the manual talk about when the main pack will recharge the 12v battery, even when the car is off?

 

[mwalsh]

BTW, this makes it pretty conclusive that juice is indeed sucked from the main pack even when the car isn't moving.

I thought we already knew this. Doesn't the manual talk about when the main pack will recharge the 12v battery, even when the car is off?

I can see that. But what appears to be happening is that the main pack is charging the 12v battery much like an alternator would rather than (what I would say is better) waiting for the 12v battery to deplete some before recharging it. So, I get back to my question...what is the point of the 12v battery? It would have probably been easier to just go with something akin to a 12v step-down transformer attached directly between the main pack and the 12v systems.

 

[JasonT]

So, I get back to my question...what is the point of the 12v battery? It would have probably been easier to just go with something akin to a 12v step-down transformer attached directly between the main pack and the 12v systems.

It's a good question, and I really don't know enough to understand the "why", I just know it is
I had a long response to this (just my guesses - and I am NOT an electrical engineer), but I think we should start a "Seriously, why is there a 12 volt battery" thread if more discussion is desired on this topic.

 

[evnow]

May be if the car if "off", then main battery won't charge 12V ?

 

[mwalsh]

May be if the car if "off", then main battery won't charge 12V ?

Do you mean to say here that when the car is off the main pack won't supply voltage for the in-car systems? Under that circumstance, I can start to see the point of a 12v battery acting much the same as the CMOS battery in a computer. But it's a damn big battery for just that.

 

[evnow]

Do you mean to say here that when the car is off the main pack won't supply voltage for the in-car systems? Under that circumstance, I can start to see the point of a 12v battery acting much the same as the CMOS battery in a computer. But it's a damn big battery for just that.

Yes - I think they went with the mass produced cheap battery than invent something new / get a not so mass produced battery.

 

[EVDRIVER]

There are good reasons for a 12 battery, one being that if there were no battery the DC/DC would need to be on all the time wasting energy. In order to have a supply to handle the accessories the needs to be a larger supply. In order to get voltage to the system, the main contactor needs to be closed, this would be drawing power constantly with no 12V battery.The reason they use a lead 12v battery is because it is low cost, VS something lower weight or more advanced. The good thing about a LEaf is that if the 12v battery died completely one could remove the battery terminal and jump the car with a 12v battery from a motorcycle or smaller, just need to close the contactor, once done there is no need for the 12V battery at all to drive.

The pack is disconnected from the drive and DC/DC form the main contactor until the 12v batter closes it, this is how EVs work. the 12V battery powers many accessories until the contactor closed, but not the high draw items. Some of the things that add weigh to the leaf are the 12v battery, the brake backup battery in the rear of the car, the PTZ heater system, and many electronic brake control systems. These are areas EV converters shed weight, the AC adds a bunch of junk as well.

 

[JasonT]

Doesn't the manual talk about when the main pack will recharge the 12v battery, even when the car is off?

I need to take this back. I reread the section of the manual that talks about this and my memory was clearly wrong. The car will charge the 12v battery for 5 minutes every 5 days while the car is off. HOWEVER it only does this if the car has not been used for 5 days. Additionally, if that is happening the charge status indicator light will light up. So whatever happened the car should not have charged the 12v battery while off, since the car had been on that day.

 

[DaveEV]

If we're back on topic:

I'd like to see some tire pressure experiments - bumping up the pressure to 40psi+ is a common trick used on PriusChat bump up fuel economy a bit - would like to see what various pressures seem to do on the LEAF.

BTW - for those of you who have the car and feel that ECO is too "slow" - Could you try driving it that way for a couple days until your foot adjusts to the reduced sensitivity? ECO does not limit full power - it's still there if you put your foot down, it just makes you move your foot more to get to the higher power levels so I think that once you adjust you'll be OK with it...

 

[Kelangst]

I think the Eco mode is a matter of perception depending perhaps on what you were driving before? I feel like in Eco mode it still drives better with more pickup than my prius did.

There is no doubt on a hill, however, that I really have to put it back in drive. The hills are a killer if eco is engaged.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I think the Eco mode is a matter of perception depending perhaps on what you were driving before? I feel like in Eco mode it still drives better with more pickup than my prius did.

There is no doubt on a hill, however, that I really have to put it back in drive. The hills are a killer if eco is engaged.

That is not needed if ECO can provide full power, it is ONLY a change of the power curve NOT the total output. It is a "dummy" mode to keep inexperienced driver form burning extra energy because they don't understand how small pedal changes burn much energy in an EV under CERTAIN conditions. If you have a real time kw meter rather than a broad range meter, this can be seen and learned quickly, once again the LEaf uses a d=pedal curve rather than having the proper gauge to teach drivers, Nissan will soon find that most drivers are smarter than that. It's the same basic EV learnings over and that auto makers ignore because they don't fully get this space yet. Time..

 

[Herm]

The bars or SOC indicator are a rough way to estimate range, I doubt you could detect the load of recharging the 12V battery. Even if you had an indicator that could go down to 1% it would not tell you much as it would drift as the temperature in the battery varied by a fraction of a degree..

The reason you need a 12v battery is that it turns on the big battery, and no, you cant leave the big battery on all the time, for safety reasons.

My request is to pump up the tires to the maximum pressure listed on the sidewall, second request is then to go past that by 10psi.. third request is to find a road that you can drive at 55mph for a few miles and see what the car tells you.

So if a truck is going 55mph in the hwy, do people slam into them all the time?, some of the time?.. never?

http://www.drive55.org/