White House Petition for Direct Tesla Sales - All States

[mitch672]

To me.. Tesla does not want to play ball because that means they have to produce thousands of cars to push out to dealers that may not be sold right away. Tesla needs the money from each car it produces ASAP to pay its bills and make the next car; they cant afford to have money tied up in inventory.

That's got zero to do with the issue.

Lets see, we put this $70-$100K all electric car that requires a special dedicated sales force in the same dealership that sells high end BMWs, Mercedes, Volvos etc. the dealership makes most of their profit from service, but EVs require very little service, so which cars are they going to sell? The ones that make them more money, the ICE cars. It also requires a trained salesforce, who frankly are mostly lazy and want an easy sale (again preferring to sell the ICE cars).

Also Tesla has directed their service centers to provide service at zero or no markup, for the cost of providing that service.. You think the ICE dealers will agree to this? Nope, Tesla needs to do this on their own for now. How well does your Nissan dealer support you? Still getting coupons in the mail for free "oil" changes? EXACTLY my point.

 

[UBUYGAS]

I didn't need to sign, it's at 108K signatures but If it was at 99,999 I would have signed.

Helping Tesla to sell to all states is good for all future EV owners.

Eventually I would like to buy a Tesla, they say they are working on a $45k car, If they are allowed to sell in every state then they will sell more cars and make more money which will allow them to hire more employees and design new models which are hopefully less expensive.

 

[Nubo]

...If they cut dealers out and sell to me direct how will I know I saved money? Are any auto makers committing to a savings % or dollar amount?...

You're right. Middlemen usually make transactions less expensive. :roll:

Just because you cut out a middle man does not always directly translate to lower prices for the consumer.

At my company we cut out the middle men in our workflows and become more efficient each year. As a result our costs to make the same product get lower. We RARELY pass the cost savings onto our customers. In fact, prices went up over the last few years.

What makes everyone think that any business will pass on 100%, or even a fraction of the cost savings, to consumers each time its costs to produce and sell the product are reduced? Does your lawn cutting service charge you less when fuel prices go down or when they get a good deal on a new piece of equipment that allows them to cut grass faster? Nope...

To me.. Tesla does not want to play ball because that means they have to produce thousands of cars to push out to dealers that may not be sold right away. Tesla needs the money from each car it produces ASAP to pay its bills and make the next car; they cant afford to have money tied up in inventory.

What kind of ball do you want Tesla to play? And why?

Will you only oppose anti-competitive laws if you can have some iron-clad guarantee of direct personal benefit?

The reason the auto dealers are so strongly opposed, is NOT for YOUR benefit, but theirs. The dealership franchise model is a parasitic anachronism that's being propped up by preferential laws. The dealers well know that once manufacturers begin selling direct, the gig is up.

Isn't it ironic that legislatures in favor of "small government" would like to use State power to erect artificial barriers to competition?

Isn't it ironic that car salesmen are holding themselves up as consumer advocates?

 

[abasile]

Just because you cut out a middle man does not always directly translate to lower prices for the consumer.

It's primarily competition that drives down prices. If you cut out a middle man where there is little or no competition, then I agree that the seller has no incentive to pass on the savings.

Automobile sales, on the other hand, are highly competitive. Yes, eliminating independent dealers would bring an end to consumers shopping around for the best price on a particular model. However, there's no shortage of competing car companies; we're in no danger of a monopoly in car sales unless Tesla exceeds my most optimistic expectations. Without the middle man, auto manufacturers would have the flexibility to cut prices even further in their efforts to outsell the competition.

As a consumer, I'd prefer to be able to order a new car from the manufacturer just like any other large, online transaction. Why, here in America, should I not have the freedom to do that?

 

[CMYK4Life]

Ok, so yall are not as clinical as I am about cost savings getting passed down to the consumer.

If you are so sure we will save money. Then how much? 1% 10%?

What will a car that costs $30,000 today cost me once this is passed and I buy my car over the internet? $28,000? 25?

No one can answer... its all fluff to me.

 

[Zythryn]

Ok, so yall are not as clinical as I am about cost savings getting passed down to the consumer.

If you are so sure we will save money. Then how much? 1% 10%?

What will a car that costs $30,000 today cost me once this is passed and I buy my car over the internet? $28,000? 25?

No one can answer... its all fluff to me.

Just because no one has all the numbers doesn't mean the idea is "fluff".

Let me ask you this, where do you think the dealer's get all the money they contribute to politicians?
Where does the money to hire all the finance guys that most people dread talking with?
And how about the advertising dollars?

They all come out of the car buyers pocket.

Now, will the savings from a direct sales model get passed on to buyers?
I would suggest that all depends upon the market. If a direct seller is able to compete with dealers without passing on those savings, they won't. However, competitive forces will become stronger as more direct sellers are competing for customer's dollars.

If we get to this point, that is when dealers really need to worry, as I don't think they will be able to compete on a price basis. Which leaves them to compete on service. A few are really good at that, but most are awful. Hopefully this will lead to a better average level of service as the poor ones go out of business.

 

[Nubo]

Ok, so yall are not as clinical as I am about cost savings getting passed down to the consumer.

If you are so sure we will save money. Then how much? 1% 10%?

What will a car that costs $30,000 today cost me once this is passed and I buy my car over the internet? $28,000? 25?

No one can answer... its all fluff to me.

$26,795.95.

 

[brg2290]

Let's see (I'm probably wrong about this), Tesla did not attempt to align their charging system with any other electric car out there so they really could care less about me, but now I'm important to them so I can sign this petition?

I can understand why you might feel this way. Initially, I just kind of rolled my eyes when I heard about the cost of Tesla's roadster, and then these years later the cost of the Model S. But, wanting to learn what I can about current and likely future EV offerings, I started following threads on the Tesla Motors Club site that talked about the development of what is referred to as the "Bluestar", or more commonly, the "Gen III". The prices being bandied about were, and apparently the goal still is, in the $30,000 range after tax incentive (and probably with the smallest battery pack and minimal or no options, etc.) The range is said to be targeting in excess of 200 miles / charge. This future car appeals to me for many reasons, not the least of which is the fact that it might be somewhat affordable to us mere mortals. (And, of course, when you factor in the savings on fuel and maintenance over an ICE, it may look like a downright appealing option.)

While lurking on the TMC website, I came to understand a little bit more about Tesla's business model. In a nutshell, as I understand it, the idea has been to initially target premium buyers and keep margins high to prove the viability of Tesla and it's products. So far, with the Motor Trend Car of the Year Award (unanimously chosen, I believe?) and the highest score ever given by Consumer Reports, and meeting their production benchmarks for Year end 2012 and first quarter 2013, the Model S has been a wonderful torchbearer for Tesla in particular and BEV's in general. It's proven to be an erstwhile contender against some of the most prestigious cars in the world...Audi, BMW and Mercedes, and in the process put the lie to the idea that an EV can't compete on even footing with a similarly priced ICE vehicle.

I've also learned that one of the stated goals of Tesla's Elon Musk is the electrification of the automobile industry, and that once the company proves it's viablility (and profitability) by selling the premium priced, higher margin Model S and Model X, one of the next steps is the release of the car I spoke of earlier - the Bluestar / Gen III, with a price point that may be attractive to you and I.

Lastly, with Tesla serving the premium / high end of the market, their battery packs, and subsequently their charging systems, are built to a much higher capacity of charge than our Leafs. I'm pretty happy with my 3.3 Kwh charger and the EVSE upgrade, but the 2013 6.6 Kwh upgrade would be nice. By contrast, Tesla recently upgraded their Supercharger station charging capacities from 90 Kwh to 120Kwh. I applaud Nissan's attempt to place a serviceable BEV on the world market, and I daresay my Leaf is the coolest car I've ever owned. But Tesla is starting at the other end of the spectrum and delivering a very high end, premium product, with the goal of expanding into a larger market with more competitive pricing in the future. I can't fault them for choosing a proprietary charging system that outperforms most (all?) other charging stations.

My question, instead of why didn't Tesla align it's charging system with any other electric car, is why didn't Nissan install DC / QC chargers at their two dealerships here in Spokane instead of the level II chargers? There is not a single DC / QC unit in Eastern Washington, even though many of the Leafs shipped into and sold in this area are the DC / QC equipped models.

Anyway - today I saw the best analysis on TESLA on why it is relevant. Worth a reading:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1532842-tesla-motors-full-analysis-2-0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for posting this...I found it to be really interesting reading!

Gary

 

[lion]

Ok, so yall are not as clinical as I am about cost savings getting passed down to the consumer.

If you are so sure we will save money. Then how much? 1% 10%?

What will a car that costs $30,000 today cost me once this is passed and I buy my car over the internet? $28,000? 25?

No one can answer... its all fluff to me.

How about the fact that these dealer groups are trying to get laws passed which forbids a company from selling a product to the consumer? How does this make sense to you? To me, it's not about potential money savings, it's about the fact that a group of folks with commercial interest are (ab)using the system by trying to eliminate competition.

Today it's Tesla, tomorrow, it could be the first car ever made, which will 'beam' you to a safe location milliseconds before it detects a crash. Would you still like these groups being able to stop you from getting this one hell of a safe car for your kid? Extreme example, but my point is that you need to think of the bigger picture.

You drive a Nissan LEAF, what if the LEAF was the vehicle in question here? Or what if you want the next gen Tesla which could be more affordable than a Nissan LEAF? Then it would affect you. Would you still feel the same? I find it hard to believe that someone who's smart enough to buy a Nissan LEAF, can't see the bigger picture here. It's all about protecting revenue, not about 'protecting the consumer' as they would like you to believe.

No one should be able to introduce laws to eliminate competition, that's not what this country is about.

 

[ERG4ALL]

I signed the petition and encouraged a few friends to do the same even though it already had over 100,000 signees. I had hoped that there would be an avalanche of signatures to lend more weight to the issue.

It is interesting to note that 100+ years ago you could order a car from Sears, either through their store or even through their catalog. And in those days cars were not near as reliable as today, but then again they were simpler and most every body who lived on a farm with farm equipment could keep them running without needing a dealer. Thus, now that Tesla has come along with a simpler car that may well be more reliable than ICE cars, we seem to forget the past and insist on dealers. :?

Another point is that the anti-EV folks complain that EVs should stand on their own two feet and not require any subsidies (i.e. protection). So now a company comes along with a marketing model that is different, and now the ICE dealers are wanting protection. Not the same, but similar enough to cause the term hypocrite to come to mind.

 

[Smidge204]

I think everyone would benefit from learning a bit more about the franchise laws and why they exist in the first place;

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1394877" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course I think they have become too overpowered and onerous, so knocking them back a peg would be a good thing... but I would not advocate completely undermining the laws since they exist for good reasons.
=Smidge=