Why Did You Choose the Nissan Leaf over the Chevy Volt?

[surfingslovak]

The Leaf was cheaper especially after the CARB rebate. Plus it was HOV lane eligible. Plus with the online reservation system I didn't have to negotiate with a dealer.

+1

The Volt was simply not available at a reasonable price. Every local dealer I talked to wanted a healthy markup. Contrast that to the 5% discount from MSRP forum members have negotiated with two Bay Area dealerships. My direct impetus for purchasing an EV was the BP oil spill, and the prospect of not needing a drop of gas in my future vehicle was a welcome bonus.

 

[evmike]

In California new Volts will qualify for green HOV stickers.
I wonder how this will change the equation for Volt vs. LEAF?

The plug-in Prius is available this month as well so that will have a green HOV sticker as well.

This will increase the competition for public charge ports.

 

[davewill]

... This will increase the competition for public charge ports.

Which is a GOOD thing. If the number of cars using these ports doesn't increase, the infrastructure build-out is going to fizzle. I hope to see the day when almost every public parking spot has some sort of plug to use.

 

[evmike]

As LEAF owner I seem to feel we have some priority over plug-in hybrids at charging stations.

We did until GM had the EV law changed so anything that can be charged has the same priority as long as it is charging.

 

[Roadburner440]

As LEAF owner I seem to feel we have some priority over plug-in hybrids at charging stations.

Being a Volt owner I definately agree with this statement.. A PHEV should not be utilizing a public charging station that a Leaf, iMiev, or like car could be depending on for a charge. Granted I do plug in at the Nissan dealer, but I am always within eye sight and would unplug for a Leaf in an instant. Mainly I do it just for kicks cause I can while talking to the management about our coming Leaf. Either way it isn't right what GM did in that regards. Especially when Volt owners are more than capable of burning gas to get home. I burn a quarter gallon or so every now and again, and I am still alive some how. :lol:

 

[charlie1300]

The volt price was over my budget. I guess I could just stop there, but even if it cost the same as the Leaf, which is at thetop of my budget, I still wouldn't have bought it because:
Less interior room
Gas mileage after battery is empty just isn't good enough
Only ever owned one chevy, and it was a piece of crap
EV only meets all our needs for local driving

When my wife's ICE dies, we'll need something like the concept of the Volt. Hopefully by then there will be something that is better in the execution.

 

[hill]

As LEAF owner I seem to feel we have some priority over plug-in hybrids at charging stations.

Being a Volt owner I definately agree with this statement.. A PHEV should not be utilizing a public charging station that a Leaf, iMiev, or like car could be depending on for a charge. Granted I do plug in at the Nissan dealer, but I am always within eye sight and would unplug for a Leaf in an instant. Mainly I do it just for kicks cause I can while talking to the management about our coming Leaf. Either way it isn't right what GM did in that regards. Especially when Volt owners are more than capable of burning gas to get home. I burn a quarter gallon or so every now and again, and I am still alive some how. :lol:

Wow roadburner ... your public EVSE/charging philosophy is refreshingly out of step with the norm that I've personally experienced. Such sentiments could get you burned at the stake! The laws in CA no longer permit 'unplugging' ... combined with using common courtesy protocol placards in public lots ... but I still use my courtesy placard in private lots. The placard in short says;
Please leave me plugged in until (example) 11:30am ... and if you finish, please plug me back in ... and here's my phone #. It created more of a sense of community.

 

[Deleted member 3147]

In California new Volts will qualify for green HOV stickers.
I wonder how this will change the equation for Volt vs. LEAF?

The plug-in Prius is available this month as well so that will have a green HOV sticker as well.

This will increase the competition for public charge ports.

The green stickers are limited to 40,000 while the white stickers are unlimited. I guess this will depend on how fast Toyota makes PIPs as I suspect that there will be more of these with stickers than newer Volts.

I just remember how quickly the 85,000 yellow stickers went. Now I admit that there were already a lot of Priuses and other hybrids on the road at the time but wonder how fast Toyota can sell 40K PIPs in California :mrgreen:

 

[planet4ever]

The Volt was simply not available at a reasonable price. Every local dealer I talked to wanted a healthy markup.

I forgot about that when I made my list six pages back. The Chevy dealer I had decided on sent me the following email on August 4, 2010, which I quote verbatim here, complete with spelling errors:

Dear Ray,
The Volt is coming... The demand is overwhealming and we are forced to take deposits on pre-orders. The MSRP on Volt will range from $41 to $44k depending upon equipment. There will be a $7,500.00 premium on the cars so we wioll be selling them from $48,500.00 to $52k plus tax and license. Would you like to discuss incoming inventory and how you can reserve one for yourself?

That was the final nail in the car's coffin for me. I put in my order for the LEAF a bit less than a month later.

Ray

 

[arnolddeleon]

Wow, all my reasons were were covered in previous postings.

About 6 years ago I thought for sure our next car was going to be a plug-in Prius but Toyota decided not take the lead in electric vehicles. I was driving the all electric RAV4-EV and my wife had a 2002 Prius. I even owned Toyota stock, but once I realized that Toyota was going to be late with a plug-in Prius and it was going to have almost no pure electric range I thought our next car was going to be the Volt (since I didn't see how I was going to afford a 300 mile Model S) until I saw the pricing on the LEAF. That got me looking into the LEAF. As we looked into LEAF and Volt closer we discovered the Volt would only seat 4, no car pool stickers in CA (until a newer model). I also decided I wanted to support a company that was committed to all electric car. The clincher for us was realizing that we could keep our gas guzzler, the Prius and cover all our needs with the three vehicles, two all electric vehicles and the Prius. What is funny is all the cars need to be plugged in, the two electric cars for obvious reasons but I have a little battery minder for the 12V battery in the Prius because the car hardly gets driven at all.

arnold

 

[SanDust]

Being a Volt owner I definately agree with this statement.. A PHEV should not be utilizing a public charging station that a Leaf, iMiev, or like car could be depending on for a charge.

But what if the Leaf didn't NEED the charge. Then if the goal is not to use gasoline we'd be better off if you charged your Volt and the Leaf gave up the charge spot. Same issue with a Tesla and a Leaf. Which should get priority? The Tesla may have come further and hence "needs" the charge more. On the other hand the Tesla has more range and therefore many not "need" the charge. It's impossible to know without knowing all the facts, and AFAIK you don't file a flight plan when using a public EVSE.

There are two diametrically opposed ideas which cannot be reconciled. Those are (1) the Leaf provides me with all the range I need and (2) the Leaf needs priority at a public charger. If (1) is true then you don't need priority. If (2) is true then you need a different vehicle.

 

[Roadburner440]

Wow roadburner ... your public EVSE/charging philosophy is refreshingly out of step with the norm that I've personally experienced. Such sentiments could get you burned at the stake!

Well the problem for me is I live in Virginia. So driving an EV is bordering going to get me burned at the stake anyway. :lol: Again just my personal thoughts once my Leaf gets here if I pulled up to a charging station that had a Volt, Fusion PHEV, PiP, or whatever there I would be pretty angry IF that meant the difference in me getting home (in some far out situation). Luckily everything here is well within a 100% charge range (in fact I can make multiple trips in the car without ever plugging in to everywhere I need to go) so it SHOULD never come in to play. I myself would just be very hesitant plugging my Volt in, and going out of sight out of mind and possibly leaving someone with a full EV stranded.

I have seen your guys little cards, and have debated printing them out to put in my windshield if I ever do find a public charger other than my Nissan dealer to experiment with. Again living in Virginia I do not think I will ever have to worry about public EVSE on a mass scale, so it should be a non-issue for me. If I am ever plugged in out and about it is usually to a 110 outlet at my work, or a 110 outlet at supporting establishments. Once the Leaf gets here and I get Phil to modify the Panasonic cord I will at least be able to plug in to 240V where I am allowed, but still to me that does not qualify as a "public" EVSE.

Personally having these cars is not as big of an inconvenience as I thought back in the early 2000's when I was wishing for the EV1 and the like to "disappear off the face of the Earth." Coming from that mindset I can understand someone starting with a Prius or a Volt. Then moving on. Personally I would want a Tesla Model S, but like Arnold that is to rich for my blood. For the same price I get 2 fully functional cars, and one of them so far has been awesome. Going off what you guys say about the Leaf it is awesome too.

Demand for the Volt is not overwhelming. I walked right in to a dealer and got ours last September (they had 3 including ours in that count).. I have yet to see any Leafs except that one demo for sale on the lot, and the Nissan dealer only wanted a $500 check cause they said the car gets here faster when they copy & fax it to Nissan (they have not cashed it, so I am going to assume they were telling the truth?).

 

[Roadburner440]

But what if the Leaf didn't NEED the charge. Then if the goal is not to use gasoline we'd be better off if you charged your Volt and the Leaf gave up the charge spot. Same issue with a Tesla and a Leaf. Which should get priority? The Tesla may have come further and hence "needs" the charge more. On the other hand the Tesla has more range and therefore many not "need" the charge. It's impossible to know without knowing all the facts, and AFAIK you don't file a flight plan when using a public EVSE.

There are two diametrically opposed ideas which cannot be reconciled. Those are (1) the Leaf provides me with all the range I need and (2) the Leaf needs priority at a public charger. If (1) is true then you don't need priority. If (2) is true then you need a different vehicle.

A good question. In my mind that would be for the Leaf/Tesla owner to hammer out, and not for me to get in the middle of. Do I ever want to use gas? Of course not. I did pay $39k though to have a gas engine, and it will ALWAYS burn some gas every 6 weeks (for maintenance mode at a minimum) so I may as well use that gas to do something instead of just burning it to burn it you know? Nothing makes me madder than having 100% charge, and then it cranked in to maintenance mode for the first time and the gas was just burning away (not recharging the battery, and going to slow to utilize it to its fullest).

To steal your example for you when I drive I do kind of mentally file a flight plan. Maybe cause I am in aviation, but with a really good accuracy I know when I will burn gas or not. Usually pretty good on estimating how far I will need gas for as well within +/-5 miles. Part of the reason I am jumping on the Leaf now. Cause with your guys chart, and my experience with the Volt I can calculate my range down a T.

Like I was saying I was born in South Carolina, lived in New York for 5 years, lived in Florida for the last 8, and now in Norfolk, VA. My experience with electric cars was watching you guys in Cali in the late 90's/early 2000's when I was still in school go through the whole EV1 debacle. So the public charging/etiquette thing is totally foreign to me. Especially since I am the only electric car I ever see on the road, or see anywhere other than a dealer. So I just go off what I think would be right in my mind whether they actually need it or not. I have read about the cards, but I have never had to deal with that. Me and a guy on the Volt forum are trying to get an EV "association" of sorts going over here to maybe get a feel for what public charging etiquette should be, and to get to know other EV owners. Still finalizing details, but will be posting invites over here for the 3 known Leaf owners in the area (if they even come here). So far it looks like just me and him from the Volt side.

 

[tps]

In order of importance to me:

1. I like the simplicity of the LEAF's all-electric drive-train.
2. The LEAF's range is OK for me. The Volt's all-electric range is not.
3. I like the styling of the LEAF's dash and interior more than that of the Volt.

Leather seats are not important to me, cloth is fine. The Volt's price would not have been a deal-breaker for me. I listen to lots of music, wide variety of genres, I find the LEAF's sound system OK, not a deal-breaker. (I have heard some cars which are awlful.)

I guess I'd get this with either, but it was a step up from what i was driving, so it was important to me:

A. USB and Bluetooth audio makes it easy for me to listen to my music (over 3100 selected tracks and counting).
B. Built-in XM. I was a big supported of XM 10 years ago, although since sound quality has degraded I am less enthusiastic.


In short, I think Nissan made some design choices which seem to work well for me.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i think if you have a plug and need a charge and you are first, then charge. what i dont like seeing (and have not seen much of this) is camping on a plug.

we had a Seattle resident go to lunch at area that had 2 charging stations, each positioned to service two parking spaces. he got there. they were both in use.

he parked next to them anyway and went inside and 15 minutes later got notification that his car was being charged.

now THAT is what we need and that is not what we are getting. about half the places that have chargers only have one charger per space. granted one has 8 chargers and i have never seen more than 2-3 charging, but most only have 2-3 chargers and only one space to park them in.

this is a mistake. they should be arranged so one charger can service 4 spaces.

Scott; how long does the Volt have to run in maintenance mode?

 

[spike09]

The Volt was simply not available at a reasonable price. Every local dealer I talked to wanted a healthy markup.

I forgot about that when I made my list six pages back. The Chevy dealer I had decided on sent me the following email on August 4, 2010, which I quote verbatim here, complete with spelling errors:

Dear Ray,
The Volt is coming... The demand is overwhealming and we are forced to take deposits on pre-orders. The MSRP on Volt will range from $41 to $44k depending upon equipment. There will be a $7,500.00 premium on the cars so we wioll be selling them from $48,500.00 to $52k plus tax and license. Would you like to discuss incoming inventory and how you can reserve one for yourself?

That was the final nail in the car's coffin for me. I put in my order for the LEAF a bit less than a month later.

Ray

So the rumors about the Volt MSRP markup are true! Does anyone know the markup on the Nissan GT-R?

 

[Roadburner440]

So the rumors about the Volt MSRP markup are true! Does anyone know the markup on the Nissan GT-R?

I have seen quite a few instances of the Leaf being marked up as well. I actually had to hunt for a dealer that was willing to do it for MSRP. I am sure the GT-R had a high mark up before all the transmissions started grenading and being denied warranty claims. :mrgreen:

 

[walter]

Reliability, quality and not american........... :!:

 

[hill]

Being a Volt owner I definately agree with this statement.. A PHEV should not be utilizing a public charging station that a Leaf, iMiev, or like car could be depending on for a charge.

But what if the Leaf didn't NEED the charge. Then if the goal is not to use gasoline we'd be better off if you charged your Volt and the Leaf gave up the charge spot. . . . . snip.

maybe you missed my courtesy placard comment. I'm just saying that method seemed to work in the past. That's all. I guess you could 'what if it to death if you wanted. "what if you forgot to put your placard out ... what if you missed the phone call from the plugin person ... what if most people in EV's refused to use placards ... what if ..."
Yes good plans don't always work perfectly .... but it's best not to throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[edatoakrun]

Being a Volt owner I definately agree with this statement.. A PHEV should not be utilizing a public charging station that a Leaf, iMiev, or like car could be depending on for a charge.

But what if the Leaf didn't NEED the charge. Then if the goal is not to use gasoline we'd be better off if you charged your Volt and the Leaf gave up the charge spot. Same issue with a Tesla and a Leaf. Which should get priority? The Tesla may have come further and hence "needs" the charge more. On the other hand the Tesla has more range and therefore many not "need" the charge. It's impossible to know without knowing all the facts, and AFAIK you don't file a flight plan when using a public EVSE.

There are two diametrically opposed ideas which cannot be reconciled. Those are (1) the Leaf provides me with all the range I need and (2) the Leaf needs priority at a public charger. If (1) is true then you don't need priority. If (2) is true then you need a different vehicle.

No, you need a different Charger.

Every time you repeat this sophistry, you only illustrate why DC, not slow and unattended L2 AC sites, is the only viable public charging infrastructure.

IMO, a BEV or a PHEV, designed for highway use, that has to park for hours in order to recharge, has a critical design flaw.