Why the Leaf?

[tattoogunman]

I've been looking at these cars and a Chevy Volt. Given the nearly limitless number of problems I read on here, I am curious as to why anyone actually picked one of these up over another make/model EV. I'd still like to consider a Leaf given their ridiculously low used prices (under $9K in my area), but I'm having a hard time justifying keeping it on my possible car list (and I know that's subjective on each individual person, so don't get me wrong )

I think that if you go to the website or chat group for any EV (or any product at all), you will find a lot of emphasis on the perceived problems . People who have no problems do not get online and say how happy they are (well, mostly they don't), but folks with problems are pretty vocal. This can lead to a perceived lack of reliability that is not accurate.

Yes and no - generally, at least from my experiences, most of the car/motorcycle groups that I've been part of have been reasonably balanced. So even if there are people tearing the particular vehicle in question apart, there are also a good number of people who come in saying they have had no problems. My Fiat board is a good example of that - there are a handful of people who have had a myriad of problems, but those of us who have had zero problems step in to mitigate it for people looking at getting the car, etc. But yes, when it comes to online posting, I would have to agree that people are more likely to complain than to praise something, regardless of what it is. I'm still planning on checking them out next week and I'll post up what the result is. Frankly, I would still prefer a Volt, but given my financial situation, a Leaf is a better option given how the used ones I am finding are more than half the price of the Volts that I can find

 

[tattoogunman]

Now to address the battery issue question again, even on this thread http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=20706 with people with the "lizard" battery they seem to be having problems. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, I just don't want to invest in this car and then have a 7 bar car six months to a year later

Hello tattoogunman,
I have had a 13SL for almost a year. I have paid a lot attention to Battery Temp. That is the key to managing range degradation.

So, do you have a garage to park the car in?? You are hot enough it Texas that if your car is out in the sun you might have a problem, but you are not any where near as hot as Phoenix. If you are pulling into a garage then that will bee a cooler space and the car will cool overnight so that you would be OK.

The Battery is now warranted for 5 years/ 60,000 miles. If it drops below 9 bars you get a new Lizard Battery under that warrantee. So your worry over a 7 bar car six months to a year later is in founded.

By the way, I love my leaf and have never had a problem.

Thanks,
Dan

The car would be inside a garage, albeit a hot garage thanks to the Texas climate. Other than the garage, it would be sitting in parking lots while I shopped or attend class. The only two charging stations on my campus are both in parking structures, so I really can't see the car being exposed outside for too long on any given occasion.

 

[jjeff]

As another detail, even a Prius, driving it only 10 miles one way and shutting it off, will probably get only 38 mpg or go. Maybe a PIP would do better, but they're expensive from what I've heard, and by that point, once again, I'd say why an ICE vehicle.

38 MPG! try 24 in the bitter winter Of course that goes up to the mid to upper 30s in the summer and 50 MPG for summer road trips but for short trips, especially in bitter cold, a ICE, even a Prius is a poor choice. Of course people with larger SUVs are lucky to get lower teens in the winter and smaller SUVs might make 17 MPG which IMO is the perfect situation for something like a plug-in ICE.
Went to look at a PHEV Chrysler Pacifica at a local dealer today(30+ mile EV range) but the dealer didn't have any nor really knew anything about them, they did have a snazzy $42k Limited ICE version they tried to sell me though :roll:

 

[LeftieBiker]

The PIP will get 99MPG on short frigid trips - IF you don't want heat.

 

[IssacZachary]

Why the Leaf?

1. Reliability. The average catastrophic motorized vehicle failure ratio in a new vehicle is 1:400. The ratio for a Leaf is 1:10,000. That's a huge difference. And according to AAA the newer ICE vehicles are actually becoming less and less reliable. Which figures since every year they have to add more and more emissions equipment. How many on this forum have posted "My motor or battery blew up how to fix? Is it under warranty?"? Now go look at any other car forum and you'll actually find questions like that.
2. Economy. For your needs you could find a used Leaf for under $10,000 quite easily. And I'd you look around you should be able to get a decent one for ad little as $6,000. Now where else on earth are you going to find a decent used 2013 car for $6,000? Not to mention practicality no maintenance and electricity is usually much cheaper too.
3. Comfort. I'm 6'1"and I've got plenty of room! And the heat! I don't have to wait for the engine to heat up first! And that's awesome seeing how do many places are adopting anti-idling laws. Of course you probably haven't had six feet of snow fall in the past couple weeks like I have.
4. Emissions. Here in Colorado ICE vehicles hardly ever meet their emissions requirements when on the actual road. Cold starts and mountains cause the engine to run at temperatures, loads and RPMs outside of the emissions window. This is further worsened if you have to do short trips all day long like me. But my Leaf runs on water. The nearest power station is a large hydroelectric dam. And even if that's not your case, in a Leaf you put the emissions problem in the hands of the government. No check engine lights or clogged catalytic converters or emissions testing or faulty EGR valves.
5. Besides all the aforementioned points the Leaf also fits the great majority of my transportation needs.

 

[powersurge]

Tattoogunman should just go away andstop wasting everyone's time and go play on a Harley Davidson site.

Go tell them how their motorcycles suck...

Were you also a Trump protester setting cars on fire on TV?

PS - Fiats are crap, have always been crap, and will always be crap. Italy cannot make a good car. Just like the British, Russians, and Yugoslavians. The only reason they exist is because their country is flooded with them and parts and repairs are easy to get (in the home country of the car).

 

[drdan]

I just bought a used 2011 Leaf, 6 bars battery. It has no trouble driving 28 miles to work and back if I stay under 40 mph (still getting 4 miles per kWh, so that doesn't change on a degraded battery I guess). Highway speeds reduce my range substantially, but I have the luxury of charging at work as well as home. One benefit of the worn battery is that it only takes 4 hours to charge from empty to 100% using the 110V trickle charger.

Given that it sounds like you have charging options at school, I would not hesitate to buy a Leaf with more than 6 bars of battery capacity remaining given your described driving habits.

 

[geos56us]

Given the driving distance you are talking about, the Leaf should work fine for you. They are definitely reliable cars. And you can get one dirt-cheap, as they have horrible resale value. Here's my story.

I have had my 2011 SL for just under 5 years now and have literally not had a single problem with it. I say that if you don't include battery degradation. I have less than 15,000 miles on my car and have lost 4 capacity bars (it's more age-related). It was less than 2 months beyond the battery degradation warranty expiration (just this month) when the 4th bar disappeared. My dealership said to contact Nissan Consumer Affairs because they oftentimes will share the cost of battery replacement if just out of warranty. I did that and heard back from them today. They said they reviewed the case and would not offer any assistance whatsoever. Perhaps since I bought my SL used (a 2011 in 2013 with 4100 miles at a cost of $18K), and have never had another Nissan, that made an impact on their decision. In any case, I plan on dumping the car soon. This is my first and most likely my last Nissan based on my experience with Corporate.

I did not realize when I bought the car how bad the battery problem was and should have done more research. The Leaf's battery has no thermal management like the Volt and others have. This is a serious design flaw in my opinion (and others). My brother has a 2013 Volt with 4 times the mileage (since you can use that car for short and long trips, he only has the one car). He has noticed no battery degradation whatsoever, has had zero problems too and loves the car. With such a limited range, my Leaf is becoming more and more like an oversized golf cart and less and less useful. I could buy a new battery, but I'd rather put that money towards one car that does everything. I do have an old '88 RX7 convertible and '94 Lexus SC400 (both fun cars to drive), but I'm at the point where I'm ready to just have one car. So in my case, "Why the Leaf?" indeed!

 

[IssacZachary]

Given the driving distance you are talking about, the Leaf should work fine for you. They are definitely reliable cars. And you can get one dirt-cheap, as they have horrible resale value. Here's my story.

I have had my 2011 SL for just under 5 years now and have literally not had a single problem with it. I say that if you don't include battery degradation. I have less than 15,000 miles on my car and have lost 4 capacity bars (it's more age-related). It was less than 2 months beyond the battery degradation warranty expiration (just this month) when the 4th bar disappeared. My dealership said to contact Nissan Consumer Affairs because they oftentimes will share the cost of battery replacement if just out of warranty. I did that and heard back from them today. They said they reviewed the case and would not offer any assistance whatsoever. Perhaps since I bought my SL used (a 2011 in 2013 with 4100 miles at a cost of $18K), and have never had another Nissan, that made an impact on their decision. In any case, I plan on dumping the car soon. This is my first and most likely my last Nissan based on my experience with Corporate.

I did not realize when I bought the car how bad the battery problem was and should have done more research. The Leaf's battery has no thermal management like the Volt and others have. This is a serious design flaw in my opinion (and others). My brother has a 2013 Volt with 4 times the mileage (since you can use that car for short and long trips, he only has the one car). He has noticed no battery degradation whatsoever, has had zero problems too and loves the car. With such a limited range, my Leaf is becoming more and more like an oversized golf cart and less and less useful. I could buy a new battery, but I'd rather put that money towards one car that does everything. I do have an old '88 RX7 convertible and '94 Lexus SC400 (both fun cars to drive), but I'm at the point where I'm ready to just have one car. So in my case, "Why the Leaf?" indeed!

Every one has a reason to own the car they dream of. An RX7 is one of those cars. Some people would never understand why someone would go buy a car that gets 15mpg on a good day, burns oil on purpose and never gets over 50,000 miles on an engine. Now don't get me wrong, I love RX7's. I think they're awesome. I've actually thought of getting an RX8 as a second car to my Leaf if I ever did decide on having two cars. Ya, I know. Those are two complete opposites.

The thing is that there are things I value that other people don't. And things you value that other people don't. You can make any car the worst car or the best car in the world.

 

[joeriv]

Just passed 3 years on my 2013S and have zero problems (aside from recalls). Looks like I use it similar to what you need - local car, 5,000 miles/yr. Battery still at 12 bars. I think the Forum tends to focus on issues that some (not all) are having - it would be pretty dull reading otherwise.

 

[IssacZachary]

Just passed 3 years on my 2013S and have zero problems (aside from recalls). Looks like I use it similar to what you need - local car, 5,000 miles/yr. Battery still at 12 bars. I think the Forum tends to focus on issues that some (not all) are having - it would be pretty dull reading otherwise.

I've got 40,000 miles and still have all 12 bars.

 

[kansas]

I'd been considering an EV for about a year when our company installed EV chargers for employees. My commute is 35 miles and I am spending $50/week on gas in my SUV.

When Nissan and our company offered a $10,000 rebate, I qualified for a $7500 federal tax rebate and our company offered another $500 rebate on a home charger, it seemed like a no brainer.

Then my '99 Honda Civic started leaking gas and the brakes started making noise.

I got my ass over to the local Nissan dealer fast!

 

[VitaminJ]

^^Lucky duck. I have been charging at my work for 3 weeks but the building recently has new owners. Yesterday the building manager "had to check" to see if I can charge because "it's not about the money, but if you can charge here, then EVERYBODY who works here is just going to go buy an electric car!" Brings me back to gradeschool "if you bring candy you have to bring enough to share with everyone else."

 

[LeftieBiker]

More like "if we let that kid ride his wheelchair at school, everyone will want to be in one."