Why We cancelled our Leaf

[garygid]

I would travel 35 to 55 miles (one way), at freeway speeds, but would often need 10 to 30 minutes at a conveniently-located QC to get back home in a reasonable time. Perhaps on the 55 mile days, I would take the Prius.

If a good QC infrastructure gets built, the LEAF becomes much more "capable" in its application uses.

 

[TomT]

OK, now we are just quibbling: To someone who is leasing only, the net affect is the same.

We were left wondering if GM can do $349/mo for a car that costs $8k more, we what does that say about Nissan’s confidence in the residual value, the long-term battery life and replacement cost?

Residual % is about the same - GM is giving a highly subsidized lease while Nissan is not. I hope rest of your analysis is better.

 

[evnow]

OK, now we are just quibbling: To someone who is leasing only, the net affect is the same.

We were left wondering if GM can do $349/mo for a car that costs $8k more, we what does that say about Nissan’s confidence in the residual value, the long-term battery life and replacement cost?

Residual % is about the same - GM is giving a highly subsidized lease while Nissan is not. I hope rest of your analysis is better.

No - read his comment. He assumed that Leaf residual is lower - which is wrong.

 

[stanley]

95% of all US customer concerns would go away if Nissan would deliver the cars rather than continue with delays. Nissan may want to maximize the sales in its home market but the U S market has much more sales potential and is many times larger. It is a huge mistake to delay U S deliveries!! They are losing U S sales.

Perhaps its about short term profitability. With Nissan`s fiscal year ending March 31, they may want to show the best profitability for the year and sales per car are more profitable in Japan.

 

[TomT]

I read his comment. My point is that the actual lease cost is what matters to the vast majority and in that regards, the Volt is a better deal since it is the same monthly lease price for a more expensive car. If you aren't planning to buy out the lease at the end, that is all you care about. GM should be given credit for being more aggressive in their lease pricing.

No - read his comment. He assumed that Leaf residual is lower - which is wrong.

 

[evnow]

I read his comment. My point is that the actual lease cost is what matters to the vast majority and in that regards, the Volt is a better deal since it is the same monthly lease price for a more expensive car. If you aren't planning to buy out the lease at the end, that is all you care about. GM should be given credit for being more aggressive in their lease pricing.

If that is what you are saying - it has nothing to do with what OP said, and my comment.

As to what is a better "deal" is highly individual dependant. To me Volt is not a better deal - since it will not do my weekend trips without oil.

 

[SteveInSeattle]

Nissan really has no way to predict the residual accurately. The value of the Leaf in 3 years will be entirely based on the reputation of the battery-- if the word is that capacity drops are significant the used market will be very leery. If, like the 1st gen Prius, the batteries are holding up very well they will be worth a lot more than the 44% Nissan is predicting at 36 months.
So the early buyers are taking a risk, and the leasers are paying more than I think they should because a 55% residual is more likely in my opinion.

As far as canceling goes, I wish people ahead of me in line would be canceling! I'm still in....

 

[derkraut]

IMHO, the OP makes valid points, and I can certainly understand why he decided to cancel his purchase. In my case, whether or not I complete purchase of the Leaf (I don't like leasing) depends upon whether the $5K CA rebate is still available. If I can't get the CA rebate, I will probably decline delivery.
From a purely economic standpoint, there are many automobiles available today (yes, they burn gas/diesel) that are more comfortable, probably much safer, have more room, probably more reliable, and more economical to operate, considering all factors.
For example, I can purchase a tried and proven fully equipped Prius with leather seats, 500 mile range, average 48-52mpg on 87 octane fuel, no range anxiety, no EVSE issues, fully refuel in about 5 minutes, no problems staying warm or cool, etc etc. Oh----and it costs thousands less than the Leaf. My wife and I both drove the Leaf. We think it's a great little commuter car, and that's why we are buying one. But---it's not worth $38,000 (CA msrp, tax, etc, etc.)

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

its easy to see people upset over the ordering process especially since i was there two weeks ago. all i can say is if you are thinking of cancelling because of the allocation/order process, dont.



its well worth the wait and it will still happen waaay before any other EV. as far as the other concerns over safety, i am not going to lose sleep over that one. i drove a Zenn for 3 years. the crash test results on that was not broken down into

likely fatal
major injury
medium injury
minor injury

like most cars.

it was rated in "how many pieces of driver" category

the other thing is value; we all need to determine what we value. i place a very low value on money because i am employed. what i spend today, can be replaced tomorrow

what i do value is the Earth, the environment and the effects of what we do to it. i am not so sure that can be replaced as easily as money

 

[IBELEAF]

I had seconds thoughts as well mainly without knowing safety rating and battery capacity, but if we don't get Leaf there is nothing else that interests us or available for at least 1-2 years... so Leaf it is.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

its easy to see people upset over the ordering process especially since i was there two weeks ago. all i can say is if you are thinking of cancelling because of the allocation/order process, dont.

I'm thinking of canceling because Nissan doesn't meet my personal standards of integrity.

In business, I have to work with a lot of surely companies, and do the business's bidding. Everything is a calculation, and poor communication or follow-through is just a cost to be factored in.

For my own personal affairs, like buying a car, I can hold the bar at my own standards.

Changing delivery dates, incorrect/confusing messages, and total lack of ETA is below my own standard for doing business. I have to decide if it's something I can let pass, or if I have to tell Nissan to cancel our deal because they're not being respectful.

Right now it hinges on the latest "4 to 7 months". If Nissan changes this timeframe (as they did the last one), we're done. Nothing at all to do with delivery date, or impatience -- but everything to do with integrity, communication, and respect. It's a large transaction, and I have a choice in whom to do business with.

 

[Jimmydreams]

I'm thinking of canceling because Nissan doesn't meet my personal standards of integrity.

Really? So you base all your purchase decisions on company standards? If so, I hope you never shop at Wal Mart, buy any product from BP, etc. etc. etc. Didn't you buy a Volt? From a company that had such bad practices that it had to go to the US Gov't to stave off a bankruptcy and collapse..........????

It's a large transaction, and I have a choice in whom to do business with.

Beside the Volt (which is a hybrid), what other choice in EV's do you honestly see being available in the next 4-7 months?

 

[TomT]

OP said, "The lease terms were not great especially compared to the Volt, and the warranty did not make us feel great about an outright purchase." That seems pretty straight forward to me and on-point with my comment.

I read his comment. My point is that the actual lease cost is what matters to the vast majority and in that regards, the Volt is a better deal since it is the same monthly lease price for a more expensive car. If you aren't planning to buy out the lease at the end, that is all you care about. GM should be given credit for being more aggressive in their lease pricing.

If that is what you are saying - it has nothing to do with what OP said, and my comment.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

I'm thinking of canceling because Nissan doesn't meet my personal standards of integrity.

Really? So you base all your purchase decisions on company standards?

As it pertains to me, sure. I don't think that's absurd.

If I have a 6PM dinner reservation, and the restaurant (say, Flemmings, La Jolla) doesn't seat us until 6:45, with a whole litanny of dishonest excuses and poor service, then I will never eat there again. It's my choice what to set for standards. You might have different ones that exclude WalMart from your business.

It's a large transaction, and I have a choice in whom to do business with.

Beside the Volt (which is a hybrid), what other choice in EV's do you honestly see being available in the next 4-7 months?[/quote]
Volt, really. That's pretty much it. It's a hybrid, but for my own commute I can get its full range of performance on EV only. I'd buy the Tesla S in an instant, but I expect it's in for significant delays and increases as well. I have no enthusiasm for the Plug-in Prius.

Another option is to "sit this round out". Lease something else (non-EV) for three years while the market matures and other cars become available. I thought I'd be driving a LEAF by now, but I really can't tell you when.

 

[Adrian]

Many of the reasons listed concern me as well. I was in the "buy" camp before. I'm starting to lean towards leasing. The battery "warranty" is probably my biggest concern.

 

[evnow]

OP said, "The lease terms were not great especially compared to the Volt, and the warranty did not make us feel great about an outright purchase." That seems pretty straight forward to me and on-point with my comment.

But that is not the comment I rsponded to ...

 

[WWBD]

I will add one thing to the list that makes all the other gripes moot for me. It's not a $35k car. It's a $22,500k car (in California). It blows everything out of the water at that price point.

 

[trentr]

The lack of communication upsets me as well, however, I commend Nissan in creating this unique ordering system where one can get a significant discount on a new car. I actually would not buy the LEAF if it was at MSRP. Also, here in CA, the carpool sticker is extremely valuable, plus I'm done with wasting time in the shop for ICE maintenance. I'm tired of all these oil changes and keeping up with all these smog checks. In terms of safety ratings, I have an 11 yr old two door compact car, so I am quite sure that the LEAF is safer. I actually would not buy any other car right now other than the LEAF. Thanks for canceling!

 

[Sasparilla]

A well reasoned choice and well written post. Good luck with your future electric based vehicle, at least you have your Level 2 charger waiting.

It'll definitely be interesting to see the crash test data come out on the vehicle. Considering how long they've had to tweak the design and their design knowledge, it should get good marks - time will tell.

Thanks for the post.

 

[evnow]

I will add one thing to the list that makes all the other gripes moot for me. It's not a $35k car. It's a $22,500k car (in California). It blows everything out of the water at that price point.

Very true.

The following in OP is a popular misconception. It is not a $35K car. It is a $25K car - and interior is quite competitive with a Prius - infact better in some respects (telematics, for eg).

The interior is cheap. This was perhaps our biggest disappointment when we drove the car. My wife put it simply: “this does not have the creature comforts you would expect of a $35,000+ car.”

The same happens when people comapare Volt to a $43K premium car. No way Volt feels like a premium car that costs above $40K.

ps : I've seen people use the higher number when it suits their purpose. Those who want to slam will use the higher number and will not acknowledge the tex credit.