Would EV motorsports be interesting?

[cinmar]

Are typical NASCAR fans there for the cars or the beer?
Andy

Perhaps EV motorsports fans will be there for the fine wine.

 

[Rat]

The total fuel consumption and carbon footprint of a Nascar race probably isn't significantly different from any other large sporting event (eg an NFL game).

This may be true, but then I consider attending any major sporting event a waste of fuel and being environmentally irresponsible. Not to mention, a waste of money and time. You can see better watching it on TV at home (with the exception of ice hockey, IMO), where you can record it, watch at a convenient time, stop it and replay what you want (not necessarily what the TV network wants), pause to get up and go to the bathroom, get a snack, answer the phone, fast forward to the end of a boring game, listen to the commentary or mute as you choose, etc. At home you don't have to sit next to some loudmouth jerk spilling his beer on you, smoking a cigar, and shouting profanities - well, maybe some of you do. And your easy chair TV seat is usually free, or at least cheaper than a wooden bench seat in a stadium (in the freezing rain or blazing sun) and there's no parking cost or problem and no travel time. Having known fans of virtually all pro sports, I can say Nascar fans are no less lout-like than other sports fans, to put it diplomatically, so although I've never been to a racing event, I doubt it would be any less unpleasant than a football or baseball game.

Perhaps worst of all, though, about the idea of car racing in sanctioned sporting events is that it gives the impression to young people that fast, unsafe driving is fun and encourages them to try it on the streets. A young woman was recently killed in a crash by two guys racing their cars on a city street in this area. I see nothing good about car racing of any kind, pro or amateur, track or street, electric or ICE. But have fun, boys!

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Quite true. The tourism industry is probably the worst culprit - in terms of "non-essential" waste.

That's starting to sound like the "Let's all just die" solution to reducing carbon emissions and energy supply issues. Don't take the kids to Orlando, go to a football game, summer trip to the mountains, a cruise for your honeymoon, or Hawaii, or a ski trip. No thanks, you can have that world. If you can't find sustainable solutions that maintain our way of life you will be marginalized. I'd rather risk drowning under rising sea levels than spend my whole life bored to tears sitting around the house.

 

[evnow]

No thanks, you can have that world. If you can't find sustainable solutions that maintain our way of life you will be marginalized. I'd rather risk drowning under rising sea levels than spend my whole life bored to tears sitting around the house.

I suggest you start checking out Peak Oil.

Since humans will never willingly give up on all these activities (AGW or no AGW), the only threat to our "non-negotiable" way of life will come from shortage of oil.

Shortage of oil => shortage of energy surplus => less leisure activities.

 

[AndyH]

Sorry evnow - I'm with LTLFT on this. The progression you've outlined is one possible outcome, but not the only one.

There are and will be plenty of people that can afford long-distance travel by whatever means even if someone turns off the oil spout tomorrow. Others that want to travel will find a way. Others will stay close to home by choice or income.

Oil will not be turned off in a week - it'll likely be a long draw-down. In the mean time, the replacements will be on-line. We'll likely never 'run out' of oil.

In the early days of steam, farmers would float goods down the Mississippi River, sell the raft, and walk home 800 miles. There's always a way.

Andy

 

[evnow]

Sorry evnow - I'm with LTLFT on this. The progression you've outlined is one possible outcome, but not the only one.

Ofcourse - nobody knows for sure.

Note that I said "less leisure activities" - not total absense. Not very different from what is happening during the Great Recession. Hawaii had 50% less visitors in 2008, IIRC.

While I understand the great desire to cling on to BAU (Business As Usual) - at a society level we will be unable to sustain BAU post peak oil. No doubt about that.

 

[johnr]

While I understand the great desire to cling on to BAU (Business As Usual) - at a society level we will be unable to sustain BAU post peak oil. No doubt about that.

Can't agree with you on that. There are plenty of alternatives to oil, even right now - it's just that they're either not as convenient or they're more expensive. There's biodiesel, ethanol, electricity, and hydrogen fuel cells. Cars and trains can run on electricity. Trucks and ships can run on biodiesel. Airplanes can run on biofuels as well. As oil gets increasingly more difficult to extract and more expensive, these alternatives will become ever more attractive.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

While I understand the great desire to cling on to BAU (Business As Usual) - at a society level we will be unable to sustain BAU post peak oil. No doubt about that.

Can't agree with you on that. There are plenty of alternatives to oil, even right now - it's just that they're either not as convenient or they're more expensive. There's biodiesel, ethanol, electricity, and hydrogen fuel cells. Cars and trains can run on electricity. Trucks and ships can run on biodiesel. Airplanes can run on biofuels as well. As oil gets increasingly more difficult to extract and more expensive, these alternatives will become ever more attractive.

Not to mention as more things move to alternatives that frees up supply for the things that weren't so easy to move.

And don't forget natural gas/methane. Somebody was talking about the Russians working on an LNG airliner.

 

[evnow]

Can't agree with you on that. There are plenty of alternatives to oil, even right now - it's just that they're either not as convenient or they're more expensive. There's biodiesel, ethanol, electricity, and hydrogen fuel cells. Cars and trains can run on electricity. Trucks and ships can run on biodiesel. Airplanes can run on biofuels as well. As oil gets increasingly more difficult to extract and more expensive, these alternatives will become ever more attractive.

We have had long discussions on this - until you run the numbers all these look possible. Do checkout TheOilDrum.com as well.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=215

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=250&p=1746

http://www.miller-mccune.com/environment/peak-oil-and-apocalypse-then-16535/

M-M: Why do you dismiss the possibility of a smooth transition from oil to other sources, such as solar and wind power or a new, improved generation of nuclear reactors?

JG: I do not dismiss this possibility. The ideal solution would be to electrify everything from road traffic to heating systems, and then produce electricity with whatever energy source is available. But let us not forget that such a technological fix would take a lot of time and investment. Unless the energy descent after peak oil is very smooth indeed, there may simply not be enough time. Alas, technological crash programs are much more difficult under crisis conditions. This is not to deny that solar and wind, as well as nuclear energy, can be helpful in the transition. But the transition is unlikely to be smooth.

 

[Rat]

I may have sounded like I'm in evnow's camp, but that's not really true, at least not wholly. LTFTL... has a point. Although I think going to an NFL game or car race is a big waste of resources, especially money and energy, I enjoy some organized sports - the Olympics, college football, the World Cup. I just think they are experienced much better in my easy chair with my TiVo rather than next to a 400-lb. cursing jerk taking half my seat (like the last college game I went to, only because my son was playing in the marching band) on a hard wooden bench. It is not evil to have fun, and people's ideas of fun vary, obviously. Some people actually enjoy being in a crowd, although that's something I'll never understand. It's akin to torture so far as I'm concerned. But I do put car racing in a particularly bad spot in my value system because of the irresponsibility factor I mentioned. My wife feels even more strongly than I do on this - she refused to watch the Pixar movie Cars past the first 20 minutes because it was "obscene" the way it glorified reckless driving. That's the only Pixar movie we didn't both really like a lot. I am surprised at this thread suggestion on EV racing because I think of EV enthusiasts as people who put particularly high value on minimizing the environmental impact of cars, which clearly has a conflict with racing.

 

[LEAFer]

I am surprised at this thread suggestion on EV racing because I think of EV enthusiasts as people who put particularly high value on minimizing the environmental impact of cars, which clearly has a conflict with racing.

True. But I think one of the points of EV racing would be to "show everyone else" that EVs can do it, too ! That they are perfectly capable modes of transportation, so to speak.

 

[BrendanDolan]

I am surprised at this thread suggestion on EV racing because I think of EV enthusiasts as people who put particularly high value on minimizing the environmental impact of cars, which clearly has a conflict with racing.

True. But I think one of the points of EV racing would be to "show everyone else" that EVs can do it, too ! That they are perfectly capable modes of transportation, so to speak.

Not to mention that in many applications, racing improves the breed. The trickle down from racing still exists...

 

[lne937s]

Ikuo Hanawa just went up Pikes Peak in 13:17- Beating out the Exhibition class, beating the Vintage Race cars, and beating a lot of vehicles overall. He did this in an EV using Sanyo batteries:

http://www.usacracing.com/ppihc/ts/2010

Times are improving consistently for EV's. EV motorsports could end up being a big deal- especially in places with noise restrictions, arena racing, etc...

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Ikuo Hanawa just went up Pikes Peak in 13:17- Beating out the Exhibition class, beating the Vintage Race cars, and beating a lot of vehicles overall. He did this in an EV using Sanyo batteries:

http://www.usacracing.com/ppihc/ts/2010

Times are improving consistently for EV's. EV motorsports could end up being a big deal- especially in places with noise restrictions, arena racing, etc...

You know what would be a cool event? EVs start at the TOP of Pikes Peak with fully discharged batteries, race to the bottom, then see how far you can make it back up.