Campbell Nelson Nissan Seattle Wa

Hello Every one. This is Ray with Campbell Nelson. We are pleased to be on this forum and to be one of the dealers that are pioneering the charging station install. Please let me know your questions and concerns and I will answer them to the best of my abilities. I will also be posting updates as I get them.
We had the pleasure of driving the Leaf a few days ago and it surpassed all our expectation which were pretty high to start with.
Thank you and looking forward to a bright future

CampbellNelson said:

We had the pleasure of driving the Leaf a few days ago and it surpassed all our expectation which were pretty high to start with.

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So what, no phone call to invite the rest of us to come by to take a look?? :mrgreen:
Looking forward to checking out the dealership; I haven't swung past since my dad took a look at one of your used cars out front last year..

TLeaf said:

CampbellNelson said:

We had the pleasure of driving the Leaf a few days ago and it surpassed all our expectation which were pretty high to start with.

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So what, no phone call to invite the rest of us to come by to take a look?? :mrgreen:
Looking forward to checking out the dealership; I haven't swung past since my dad took a look at one of your used cars out front last year..

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You are more than welcome to stop by any time. The Leaf test drive was in Oregon and it was a "none official" type of opportunity. We will be getting a demo car hopefully sooner than the promised date of late November.

Here are a few more details I was able to get from Nissan on the Lease option and applying the federal tax:
Nissan will issue the rebate directly on leases and collect from the feds. Along with the approval for credit, you will also have your credit tier approval that will decide your Lease money factor.
Currently, there are 5 tiers:
Tiers 0 and 1 usually have the same rate. If not, tier 1 rate is 0.0002 higher.
tier 2 increases by 0.0004 over tier 1.
tier 3 increases by 0.00105 over tier 2
and tier 4 increases by 0.0085 over tier 3. For example: If Current standard lease rate is 0.0025 you will have the following:
Tier 0: 0.0025 (the un-official formula is to multiply this number by 2400 so 0.0025 is similar to paying 6% apr)
Tier 1: 0.0025-0.0027
Tier 2: 0.0031
Tier 3: 0.00415
Tier 4: 0.005
credit score usually determine the tiers: 740+= T0, 700-739 = T1, 660-699= T2, 620-659=T3, 600-619=T4
Keep in mind a few more facts:
*These rates change on a monthly basis
*Special rates are offered on certain models by Nissan (Altima, Sentra,..). We do not know if the Leaf will be one of these
*Nissan Notes that their Lease "Example" is also based on the fact "if it was leased / sold April 2010" which means the residual they are estimating will/could be less 8 months later which will/could drive the lease cost up.

More to come

Look at my Fed Tax info to Lease?

Sounds like if you do not appear to qualify for the full $7500 tax credit, your lease will be higher!

So, one less benefit to leasing?

Do you know when Nissan will announce the details - residual, mileage etc ?

edit : One more important question. If someone who won't have 7,500 in taxes wants to lease what happens ? Until now the consensus here was, it doesn't matter. Infact lease would be a way to get those $7.5K credit benefits ...

evnow said:

Do you know when Nissan will announce the details - residual, mileage etc ?

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The earliest would be November. I know they want to make the leaf as appealing as possible but they do not want to end up with a bunch Leafs 3 years from now that are worth a lot less than what the residual is. That being said, I am sure that the lease is closed end and the lessee can buy it at residual no questions asked. The answer to this question could change people's mind if they leasing for the purpose of buying at the end: If A "new" EV is sales tax exempt in Wa state, what about a used one? if not, you would pay tax on the residual.

CampbellNelson said:

If A "new" EV is sales tax exempt in Wa state, what about a used one? if not, you would pay tax on the residual.

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Interesting. Need to go back and read.

How about the other question - may be I edited the post after you saw it. That is make or break for some ... though not unfortunately for me. I pay way too much in taxes.

garygid said:

Look at my Fed Tax info to Lease?

Sounds like if you do not appear to qualify for the full $7500 tax credit, your lease will be higher!

So, one less benefit to leasing?

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If you do not get the full 7,500 rebate, your cost will be higher regardless if you lease or purchase. The rebate comes off your cap cost which is the amount you will be financing on your lease. The higher the cap cost, the higher the lease cost.

CampbellNelson said:

Here are a few more details I was able to get from Nissan on the Lease option and applying the federal tax:
Documentation (tax paperwork, w-2, 1040,....) has to be provided to lock in your tax liability and to calculate the rebate based on that.

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WHaaat ??

I was under the impression that since it's not the customer that's the "owner", but the finance company (a Nissan subsidiary), it is THEY that qualify for a tax credit ! And it is THEY that apply and get the benefit. If I have to show MY tax paperwork for 2009, plus W-2 (which I do not have) ... how in the world are they going to estimate what I qualify for in 2010 ???????

This makes NO sense !

If I decide to go the BUY route I was specifically preparing to convert some IRA to Roth status to CREATE any tax liability up to the magic matching $7,500. If I go the LEASE route lots of details and effects from proper tax planning won't be available at the time of delivery. What's worse, if delivery is postponed past January 1, OOOOPS ... MokeyWrench!

This makes NO sense !
(Did I say that already?)

LEAFer said:

CampbellNelson said:

Here are a few more details I was able to get from Nissan on the Lease option and applying the federal tax:
Documentation (tax paperwork, w-2, 1040,....) has to be provided to lock in your tax liability and to calculate the rebate based on that.

Click to expand...

WHaaat ??

I was under the impression that since it's not the customer that's the "owner", but the finance company (a Nissan subsidiary), it is THEY that qualify for a tax credit ! And it is THEY that apply and get the benefit. If I have to show MY tax paperwork for 2009, plus W-2 (which I do not have) ... how in the world are they going to estimate what I qualify for in 2010 ???????

This makes NO sense !

If I decide to go the BUY route I was specifically preparing to convert some IRA to Roth status to CREATE any tax liability up to the magic matching $7,500. If I go the LEASE route lots of details and effects from proper tax planning won't be available at the time of delivery. What's worse, if delivery is postponed past January 1, OOOOPS ... MokeyWrench!

This makes NO sense !
(Did I say that already?)

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I am pretty sure there are a bunch of nissan specialists scratching their heads locked up in a basement trying to figure all these out.
If that was the case though (finance company qualifying for the full tax credit...) everybody would Lease and get the full rebate. The Finance company in question is Nissan motor acceptance corporation which the factory controls and subsidizes in many aspects.

[/quote]
WHaaat ??

I was under the impression that since it's not the customer that's the "owner", but the finance company (a Nissan subsidiary), it is THEY that qualify for a tax credit ! And it is THEY that apply and get the benefit. If I have to show MY tax paperwork for 2009, plus W-2 (which I do not have) ... [/quote]

You are the registered owner regardless of how you pay for the car. If you are financing, would your bank or credit union (the legal owner) have to qualify for the full tax?

WHaaat ??

I was under the impression that since it's not the customer that's the "owner", but the finance company (a Nissan subsidiary), it is THEY that qualify for a tax credit ! And it is THEY that apply and get the benefit. If I have to show MY tax paperwork for 2009, plus W-2 (which I do not have) ... [/quote]

You are the registered owner regardless of how you pay for the car. If you are financing, would your bank or credit union (the legal owner) have to qualify for the full tax?[/quote]

NO, no, no...if I lease, I am NOT the owner. And I have already asked many dealers and Nissan and they ALL said (except you) that the lessor (Nissan) receives the full $7500 fed tax credit applied to the lease. It makes no sense otherwise.

I think we should go to the original bill and read the language ...

CampbellNelson said:

If that was the case though (finance company qualifying for the full tax credit...) everybody would Lease and get the full rebate.

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Not necessarily, since there are many other pros/cons to leasing completely unrelated to a tax credit, just like with a regular car.

CampbellNelson said:

You are the registered owner regardless of how you pay for the car. If you are financing, would your bank or credit union (the legal owner) have to qualify for the full tax?

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Ok. That's a good point. I have only one lease experience under my belt, so you'll forgive me a little if I get some of this wrong. I equated car leasing more with renting. The renter does not qualify for a lot of stuff, the landlord, however, does. If you buy the home, YOU qualify for a lot of stuff, the mortgage company does NOT.

This LEAF lease tax credit stuff ... as explained so far ... STILL does NOT make a lot of sense. I hope those guys in the Nissan basement come up with some VERY clear explanations and examples REALLY fast. :x

Throws a whole lot of negativity on the lease deal that's supposed to be so good a deal.

This http://www.nissanusa.com/ev/media/pdf/incentives/nissan-leaf-incentive-57.pdf
says:

Beneficiary: The party placing the vehicle in service which is typically the purchaser in a sale transaction or the lessor in a lease transaction. Not a lessee in a lease transaction.

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Bold Blue is my emphasis !

evnow said:

I think we should go to the original bill and read the language ...

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Thanks to Debbie from Avondale Nissan here it is: Beneficiary: The party placing the vehicle in service which is typically the purchaser in a sale transaction or
the lessor (Nissan) in a lease transaction, NOT a lessee (we) in a lease transaction. (I added the ( ) and caps).
I rest my case!

leaffan said:

evnow said:

I think we should go to the original bill and read the language ...

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Thanks to Debbie from Avondale Nissan here it is: Beneficiary: The party placing the vehicle in service which is typically the purchaser in a sale transaction or
the lessor (Nissan) in a lease transaction, NOT a lessee (we) in a lease transaction. (I added the ( ) and caps).
I rest my case!

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this is the exact language that makes me question how good is the lease going to be at the end. If Nissan will receive the full tax benefit on every Lease, You have to bet that they will use it to their favor. Now I am thinking a very high residual (subsidized by the rebate) which is again not favorable to anybody looking to purchase at the end of the lease, and a much higher lease charge.
We also just received notification From Nissan financial that new lease forms are being sent that include new "language" which requires new programing from our operating systems to be done within the next 30 days. The first thing I noticed is the buy out fee at the end of the lease went from $150 to $300.
Will update with more as I get them.

CampbellNelson said:

this is the exact language that makes me question how good is the lease going to be at the end. If Nissan will receive the full tax benefit on every Lease, You have to bet that they will use it to their favor. Now I am thinking a very high residual (subsidized by the rebate) which is again not favorable to anybody looking to purchase at the end of the lease, and a much higher lease charge.

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Yes, the financial vaibility of lease depends on the residual. If it is high it is not beneficial to buy - so most will not buy - which is not in Nissan's interest. They will have to sell the cars for a loss after 3 years, which isn't good for thier balance sheets.

evnow said:

CampbellNelson said:

this is the exact language that makes me question how good is the lease going to be at the end. If Nissan will receive the full tax benefit on every Lease, You have to bet that they will use it to their favor. Now I am thinking a very high residual (subsidized by the rebate) which is again not favorable to anybody looking to purchase at the end of the lease, and a much higher lease charge.

Click to expand...

Yes, the financial vaibility of lease depends on the residual. If it is high it is not beneficial to buy - so most will not buy - which is not in Nissan's interest. They will have to sell the cars for a loss after 3 years, which isn't good for their balance sheets.

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Correct. However what they own the car for internally after 3 years will technically be $7500 less than what the lessee can buy it for. This could very easily swing their loss to a profit. Everything will become much easier once I have the official lease guide lines.
As a dealer, I do not have a financial preference how you buy the car (just where you buy it ). I definitely want to be able to give the right advice because I plan to be here 3 years from now when your lease is up so I can keep you as my customer.