DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12812
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Sat May 20, 2017 8:59 am

arnis wrote:Once again I'm witnessing interesting behavior of HX and SOH values.
My vehicle is almost 3 years old. This winter, for 5 months, SOH and Hx
values were frozen, literally, near 98 99% values. Those values NEVER change
if battery doesn't heat up to at least 15C (4 temperature bars).
This year we went from snowstorms, hail, subfreezing awesome weather to
+23C (73F), absolutely sunny, in like, 2-3 weeks. As soon as pack got up to 15C
SOH and Hx values started to drop (they do that every spring). And for now,
30-35 days later after winter Hx/SOH "frozen" period, I've dropped form 99.03%
Hx and 99% SOH down to 91,08% Hx and 91% SOH.

With absolutely no change in range. Actually range is way better due to more efficient
chemistry (I stopped using heater at +5C). Went up from 120km to around 150km, same
usage scenarios, 50% at speed 100km/h, all else urban.
Both scenarios no HVAC draw, same tires, different pack temperature (5C vs 25C).

HX SOH values will start going up again in fall, and freeze for winter.
PS! If I DC charge, both values will go up for short period. This is known behavior.
As far as I understand, values creep up slowly. And the closer the battery is to the 4
temperature bar lower limit (+15C), the higher those numbers go.


Therefore those values are not good for capacity estimation.


mine change in Winter... In fact I took a new car with SOH 100, Hx 102ish and ran them down to 97/ 97.23% in slightly more than 2 weeks. Max temp during that time was in the garage in the low to mid 50's. Mostly at the upper 30's to low 40's
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 2483 miles, 490 GIDs, 38.2 Ahr available, SOH 99.30, Hx 114.37
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

arnis
Posts: 835
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Sun May 21, 2017 1:48 am

Outside temperature has nothing to do with winter lockup.
It's the battery temperature sensors that matter.
Even heating up the battery with DC charge works.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

opencar
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:31 am
Delivery Date: 01 Jun 2011
Location: San Diego Coastal

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:07 am

Stanton wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Stanton wrote:I'm definitely seeing behavior with my lizard pack that I never saw with my original pack. My AHr dropped consistently for many months (down to about 56+)...and then started to go back up (to 57+). Had I continued on the same degradation trajectory--not to mention the summer heat--I would have probably dropped a bar by now. I would be surprised if I made it through this summer without that happening, but for now my AHr has certainly stabilized.


what is time and mileage on replacement pack?


I'm currently @68 months and 55k miles, so based on my sig stats, the new pack is @17 months and 14k miles.
The answer to your next question is: I lost the first bar on my original pack @22 months and 20k miles.


I'm now at 76K mi total (about 25K on Lizard replacement) and about 56Ahr. definitely different degradation behavior on the LIzard when compared to the original battery. Wondering how other Lizards are faring - what Ahr does the first bar drop on this particular battery version?
1st bar- 22K, 27mo, Ah=55.29
2nd- 33K, 37mo, Ah=51.54
3rd- 41K, 46mo, Ah=47.47
4th- 49K, 53mo, Ah=43.28
Warranty Lizard- 50K, Oct'15
Jun'16- 56K, Ah=66.14
Aug'17- 70K, 22mo, Ah=59.9

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12812
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:23 am

opencar wrote:
Stanton wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
what is time and mileage on replacement pack?


I'm currently @68 months and 55k miles, so based on my sig stats, the new pack is @17 months and 14k miles.
The answer to your next question is: I lost the first bar on my original pack @22 months and 20k miles.


I'm now at 76K mi total (about 25K on Lizard replacement) and about 56Ahr. definitely different degradation behavior on the LIzard when compared to the original battery. Wondering how other Lizards are faring - what Ahr does the first bar drop on this particular battery version?


your sig says you lost first bar at 55ish @ 22,000 miles so its looking like the improvement is incremental at best?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 2483 miles, 490 GIDs, 38.2 Ahr available, SOH 99.30, Hx 114.37
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Valdemar
Posts: 2449
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:10 pm

I'm about 2 years/40k miles into my Lizard pack that has been through 2 full SoCal summers charged to 100% daily (but driven almost immediately after the charge completes), hasn't lost a bar yet but it feels like it is looming. Haven't fired up LeafSpy in months and need to get the stats (the SOH 93% you see now in my sig is out of date), but this is noticeably better than the original 2011 pack. I was down to 11 bars just after 21 months and 33k miles in May with Sept delivery so not even after 2 summers in the same climate and mostly 80% charging at the time.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
54.94AHr, SOH 86%, 130k miles
9kW Solar

Valdemar
Posts: 2449
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:40 am

Got the stats. 54.94AHr, 86%SOH, 7% SOH lost over ~10k/6mo. Hmm, looks like we are on a faster decline now, perhaps I will gain some back once the temps are up, I seem to remember reading Lizard packs tend to "lose" some numbers in cooler temps.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
54.94AHr, SOH 86%, 130k miles
9kW Solar

opencar
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:31 am
Delivery Date: 01 Jun 2011
Location: San Diego Coastal

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:22 pm

Valdemar wrote:Got the stats. 54.94AHr, 86%SOH, 7% SOH lost over ~10k/6mo. Hmm, looks like we are on a faster decline now, perhaps I will gain some back once the temps are up, I seem to remember reading Lizard packs tend to "lose" some numbers in cooler temps.


i'm surprised you haven't lost the first bar since you are below 55 AHr. I wonder if the Lizard bar loss points are all different from the original batteries.
1st bar- 22K, 27mo, Ah=55.29
2nd- 33K, 37mo, Ah=51.54
3rd- 41K, 46mo, Ah=47.47
4th- 49K, 53mo, Ah=43.28
Warranty Lizard- 50K, Oct'15
Jun'16- 56K, Ah=66.14
Aug'17- 70K, 22mo, Ah=59.9

Valdemar
Posts: 2449
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:10 pm

I can't quickly find the empirical Ahr to bar mapping but there was a fairly significant variance at bar loss points, if memory serves.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
54.94AHr, SOH 86%, 130k miles
9kW Solar

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6120
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:49 am

Valdemar wrote:I can't quickly find the empirical Ahr to bar mapping but there was a fairly significant variance at bar loss points, if memory serves.
I recently posted about that here. It appears that the MY2015 LEAFs do not drop their twelfth bar until they get below about 53 Ah.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

aarond12
Posts: 380
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:42 am
Delivery Date: 17 Oct 2015
Leaf Number: 311353
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: Lizard Pack Holding Up

Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:08 am

As of my last LEAFSpy reading, I'm at SOH = 90.47% and Hx = 83.44%. I'll be at 33,000 miles later today and am still showing all 12 bars.
2012 Mitsubishi i-MiEV ES (lease ended) • 2015 Nissan LEAF S • Tesla Model 3 reserved
Mods: Matte black Juke wheels, LED headlights and accessory lights, horn, CarPlay receiver

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