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Delivery Date: 26 Mar 2017
Location: Minnesota

Re: Future of Leafs in Jordan

Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:46 pm

With China now having 1/3 of all BEVs on the road, and 1/2 of new sales, it's possible that the first BEV with aftermarket or economically-viable replacement batteries will come from there. It probably won't be importable into US or EU, but could be imported into other global markets.

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Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:20 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Apr 2013
Leaf Number: 405122
Location: Northern California
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Re: Future of Leafs in Jordan

Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:50 am

RonDawg wrote:In high-heat environments, to preserve range it's best to import an EV that uses active liquid cooling for the battery. So no Leaf (no cooling at all), no Kia Soul EV (uses cabin air), and no VW eGolf, at least the North American-spec version (not sure if the EU-spec has liquid cooling).

I believe the Mitsubishi iMiEV, Chevy Spark EV, and Ford Focus Electric all have liquid cooling for their batteries. If you can swing the acquisition cost, so do the Tesla models, but the most affordable one (the Model 3) was just released to the public and there's a months-long if not years-long waiting list depending on the specification you want.

Add Fiat 500e to the list above of liquid cooled batteries. We just acquired four of them. They are tiny, but fun and good range. Great city car. Ambient summer temps around here (Central Valley of California) are 100-115F so almost as bad as Arizona. I cannot drive a LEAF here from late May thru late October. Looking forward to buzzing around in a 500e although there are so many full size trucks and SUV's around here I worry a bit about safety.

We continue to get a lot of calls from Jordan and now Norway is really starting to pick up.

Posts: 608
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:57 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Oct 2012
Leaf Number: 24218
Location: Southern Arizona, USA

Re: Future of Leafs in Jordan

Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:45 am

xenastro wrote:Thank you for your response.

Charging stations problem should be soon resolved, we already have a few of them and the local community is very helpful in sharing their own home charging stations on PlugShare.

Hi - it's more than a year later, but recently you've received a number of responses. A few ad hoc additional points from me:
- I live in Arizona, USA and drove a 2012 Leaf for awhile. I did experience battery degradation over the duration of the lease, as well as a few other drawbacks. Basically, the car's range was just far too little for my needs. I have long since moved on and purchased a Chevy Volt PHEV, and haven't recently paid close attention, but my fallible understanding was that it was/(is?) possible to purchase a replacement battery for the Leaf and have it installed. About USD $6000? I have no idea if this is true in Jordan.
- Unfortunately, there is a lot of homework to do on BEVs, and if you buy one that starts out life with these lame short ranges (under 100 miles for example), then any loss of range hurts even more.
- as far as I can recall, the Mitsubishi iMiEV is air-cooled (and only starts out life as 16 kWh? has this increased over the years?) Someone mentioned it as liquid-cooled. I don't know if there are differences with the Citroen or Peugeot variants.
- I'm thinking that some of your bets would have been, or may still be, to research Renault and some other models in Europe. For awhile, it looked like Renault was doing a better job of offering a battery upgrade path to drivers of used BEVs, but I'm not up to date on where that has gone.
- Renault Zoe - the earlier models came with the same inadequate (for purposes of many of us) kWh, but doing a quick look around, it appears that in recent years, there has been an option for ~41 kWh. Depending on battery protection and budget, this might be an option for some. (For me, even though there are a small number of ~40 kWh used BEVs in the US, I just made a decision I'm not bothering with these short range BEVS any more, so it's a PHEV for me until the BEVS are high quality, work it all out as to range, and depreciate in price on the used markets.
- GM has not been good about making the Bolt available in EMEA, otherwise I'd suggest looking into it.
- Unclear to me what sort of battery management and degradation the new Leafs will have in 2019.
- For me, the solution to all of this was to buy a used good PHEV (and there are plenty of mediocre ones), the Chevy Volt, and then drive about half my miles on gasoline, and wait it out, until the next generation of BEVs with 150+ miles EPA and well-protected batteries come down in price on the used market. I don't know which PHEVs are widely available used in the EMEA markets and have good battery protection. You do still I think have to worry about battery life in a used PHEV. I bought a used Volt here in Arizona with some confidence because Chevy did a good job of designing and installing the battery pack and cooling and such.
- I figure I will be able to finance a loan on my next BEV, such as a used Bolt or Tesla Model 3, sometime around 2023. At that time, I'll consider a used 2019 Leaf except the Bolt will have a 2-year head start in depreciation to my price levels, and I don't know yet what sort of battery degradation I can expect on a Leaf. I'm not a fan of the Bolt's styling though, so that's a point for the Leaf and Tesla.

Anyway, I do realize the original poster may have moved on from this question, but I thought I'd try to summarize some thoughts on it.
Former lessee 2012 SL
2017-October: bght 2013 Volt
will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
opinions expressed are my own

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