Who Is The World's Leading EV Maker? [Forbes]

The Nissan Renault alliance leads world-wide EV prodction

Their challenge now is to consolidate their platforms and battery technology and production.

Not news. Nissan and its partners have consistently led in sales, but the handwriting is on the wall that Tesla might pass them up with Model 3.

P.S.: As in the past, this article will likely attract recommendations to stop counting cars, and to rather write about Tesla’s higher sales price, or their future sales, or their luxury car ranking, anything except silly unit sales. To my regret, I am unable to follow these repeated recommendations. The agreed-upon yard stick in the industry is unit sales, that’s why they are called units. Also from an emissions standpoint, as many ICE cars as possible need to be replaced by zero emissions models, around the globe.

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I would love to see a resurgence of Nissan et al's EV efforts with their upcoming models but I'm not holding my breath. In the meantime it is obvious that the LEAF is a dying/dead platform.

Little incremental improvement since 2011
$10k factory rebates to move cars
Lagging battery chemistry
Miserable battery longevity
Corporate willingness to anger EV owners with piss-poor support

Unit sales are interesting if they are *profitable* unit sales. Otherwise you just have another car company hoping for a future government bail-out.

They seem to be caught up in the self driving fever so they are blinded by the lack of improvement in their existing platform (read bigger battery = more range)

oleviking said:

They seem to be caught up in the self driving fever so they are blinded by the lack of improvement in their existing platform (read bigger battery = more range)

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Well they do have an ambitious effort going on with PilotPro Assist, and it is going to be part of LEAF/Next across the line, but I also believe that they are doing some really cool things with the platform, and all of the dimensions of the whole car. I think once you see it, and consider the entire Nissan proposition you will agree. It's more than just a big-ass battery.

And I'm not saying that because I'm Shilling (though I prefer "Pimping") for Nissan, I'm saying it because I'm looking critically at what this next car will bring, because I have to decide if it is something for me as well. When I'm talking about my dollar, I'm lightyears tighter than you most of you, and I'm going to spend it wisely.

What I have seen, just like a few others here have also seen, I believe will be a very well balanced offering, and in fact, I will say that it will (not may) give the Tesla 3 a run for its money.

More than 125HP?

LeftieBiker said:

More than 125HP?

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I suspect so.

OrientExpress said:

What I have seen, just like a few others here have also seen, I believe will be a very well balanced offering, and in fact, I will say that it will (not may) give the Tesla 3 a run for its money.

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With this many weasel words, you should apply for a position in the White House menagerie.

Yaaaawn

SageBrush said:

With this many weasel words, you should apply for a position in the White House menagerie.

Yaaaawn

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You really do have a SUYA these days don't you, or you have a low tolerance for measured speculation.

OK, be that way, you have company, believe me. That's OK, it's fair skepticism, but LEAF/Next will be a chance to move on and say lessons learned.

Let's have this conversation again on September 5th, and especially in the following weeks when you can have a hands-on drive.

As I've said before, if the specs required to have that conversation aren't released (or leaked via a reliable source) by July, it's unlikely that that conversation will occur. It will be more like "Like my new Bolt? I got a good deal on it and fixed the seats myself."

That could be a move you are going to regret. But if you can't wait, get the Bolt now.

Nissan should, at the very least, have those specs out well before Labor Day weekend. That's when the best car sales occur. With nothing to judge the new Leaf by, it will be extremely hard to pass on a good deal, in favor of a bird in the bush. And if the next Leaf disappoints, those who waited all Summer for just the "release" are going to be pretty angry at Nissan.

The deals are always there.

OrientExpress said:

You really do have a SUYA these days don't you

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No, but your self-appointed role as the grand pimp who has cornered the lubricant market is quite a show.

SageBrush said:

I would love to see a resurgence of Nissan et al's EV efforts with their upcoming models but I'm not holding my breath. In the meantime it is obvious that the LEAF is a dying/dead platform.

Little incremental improvement since 2011
$10k factory rebates to move cars
Lagging battery chemistry
Miserable battery longevity
Corporate willingness to anger EV owners with piss-poor support

Unit sales are interesting if they are *profitable* unit sales. Otherwise you just have another car company hoping for a future government bail-out.

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We don't know whether they are profitable sales (on a per-unit basis). For all I know, they could be even with the $10k rebate. If so, Nissan is smart to sell as many as they can with slim margins just to maintain their presence/mindshare in the EV market. If not, well I don't understand why they wouldn't just sell the bare minimum to meet their CARB requirements.

As for the "miserable" battery longevity, that is highly climate dependent as has been discussed ad nauseum. I'm sorry if you have lost significant capacity, but there is no need to resort to hyperbole. Even my original-chemistry 2012 battery is holding up just as Nissan said it would (80% capacity at 5 years). The newer batteries are more durable still. I would rather Nissan solve the problem with continued durability improvements rather than slap a TMS on it. If you live in AZ, maybe the Bolt is a better option.

SageBrush said:

OrientExpress said:

You really do have a SUYA these days don't you

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No, but your self-appointed role as the grand pimp who has cornered the lubricant market is quite a show.

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This forum needs a foe list for combinations of people. I enjoy reading what you both have to say, but when you start bickering, I wish I could just filter it out...

GetOffYourGas said:

SageBrush said:

I would love to see a resurgence of Nissan et al's EV efforts with their upcoming models but I'm not holding my breath. In the meantime it is obvious that the LEAF is a dying/dead platform.

Little incremental improvement since 2011
$10k factory rebates to move cars
Lagging battery chemistry
Miserable battery longevity
Corporate willingness to anger EV owners with piss-poor support

Unit sales are interesting if they are *profitable* unit sales. Otherwise you just have another car company hoping for a future government bail-out.

Click to expand...

We don't know whether they are profitable sales (on a per-unit basis). For all I know, they could be even with the $10k rebate. If so, Nissan is smart to sell as many as they can with slim margins just to maintain their presence/mindshare in the EV market. If not, well I don't understand why they wouldn't just sell the bare minimum to meet their CARB requirements.

As for the "miserable" battery longevity, that is highly climate dependent as has been discussed ad nauseum. I'm sorry if you have lost significant capacity, but there is no need to resort to hyperbole. Even my original-chemistry 2012 battery is holding up just as Nissan said it would (80% capacity at 5 years). The newer batteries are more durable still. I would rather Nissan solve the problem with continued durability improvements rather than slap a TMS on it. If you live in AZ, maybe the Bolt is a better option.

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Indeed, I expect to see Nissan produce the Gen2 LEAF in compliance/ZEV quota quantities. As I said before though, I'll be delighted to be wrong.

If LEAF battery degradation leading to the junkyard before 10 years was an uncommon event limited to Phoenix I would not have a negative opinion about LEAF battery tech. As it is, throughout a large swath of the US cars are dropping like flies by ~ 6 years and 30% capacity loss within 3-4 years are a dime a dozen. Accelerated battery aging has not affected me personally, but you have to live alone in a cave to not know about the widespread problem.

Nice subtle ad-hominen at the end of your post there...

I don't know that this problem is as widespread as you state. 6 year life of the car? 30% loss in 3-4 years? In hot areas, yes. In cooler areas, no way. The Leaf was designed by a Japanese company. It simply doesn't get that hot anywhere in Japan. The car was not adequately designed for the southern part of the US, I'm not debating that. I would like to see actual numbers / stats but all I have are a number of (very) squeaky wheels.

SageBrush said:

Accelerated battery aging has not affected me personally, but you have to live alone in a cave to not know about the widespread problem.

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Okay, I'll bite. If this does not affect you personally, why are you on this endless crusade? Can't we just stick to the actual facts in our on-line posts?