Drained it –One Leaf Owner's Experience

This is long, I know, but bear with me.

I now have a firm figure on my expected driving range from a 100% charge, and that figure is not 100 miles, not 90 miles, and not even 80 miles. I offer this account for the benefit of other drivers. Please don’t reply to offer use of your charging dock, or point out that Boardwalk Nissan has them, or provide any other helpful hints. If you want to flame me, go ahead, I can’t stop you. I am writing this purely to share my experience with other LEAF owners. I am happy to answer polite inquiries.

Last night, I tried to take my family (wife and two small kids, well below 500 pounds total payload including the car seat) on an 80 mile round trip from San Francisco to Los Altos and back. Leaving the house, the dashboard estimated our driving range at 112, and this figure steadily decreased as we headed uphill towards, then along 280. I have about 600 miles on the car, and I have experienced the variable nature of the expected range as you go up and down hills, so I expected my cushion to return after passing 92 or so and heading down towards Los Altos. I kept it in ECO, used the fan, but not A/C and we listened satellite radio, and some from my Ipod. I mostly kept the speed between 60 and 65 on the way down. I did not use cruise control.

Once we arrived in Los Altos, we expected to stay a couple hours so I tried to trickle-charge since our expected range at that point was only 42 miles. Unfortunately, that was first time that I used it, and the plug I used was not grounded properly. It wasn’t until about 20 minutes before we left that I read the manual and then changed outlets. So we only got a negligible bit of extra juice for the ride home.

For the trip back, our friends followed us, and we drove between 55 and 65 for the most part, with no heating or air. We did listen to the radio. Some ways after 92, we were asked if we wanted to search for charging stations, and as we passed the 380 interchange, we got the message that we had an extremely low battery and should look for a charging station immediately. But the range was very close to the distance to our house so we kept going. In Daly City we opted to get off the freeway for safety reasons. The route we chose had negligible effect on distance traveled. Near Lake Merced, our expected range hit the three dashes, and as we approached Great Highway we went into turtle mode.

I suppose if you drive 5 miles an hour, turtle mode might last a while but as it was, it only lasted about a mile for us. We ran out of juice about two blocks from our house. I have read on this board some speculate that you can shut off the car and then restart it and get some short distance of “extra” range. This was not my experience. I was able to get the car into neutral, and my Wife and I pushed the car home with my 8 year old steering. I am very glad that I purchased a 25 foot cord as it allowed me to charge the car with it just into the drive way, and 30 minutes later I could pull it into the garage.

Drove the car to work this morning and it seems none the worse for wear.

I have to say that I am disappointed. I realize that I was not a single occupant, and that I didn’t drive 55 (I didn’t go 70 either) and 280 is somewhat hilly, but 80 miles does not seem like an unreasonable expectation. Then there is the stress. Since getting the Leaf, my daughter has been telling my wife that her car is old, and how much she likes my car. Driving the last 10 miles she wanted my wife to hold her hand and was saying how she hated daddy’s car. I hope getting to steer it for that block or so, may have improved her spirits.

friendnumber1 said:

I was able to get the car into neutral, and my Wife and I pushed the car home with my 8 year old steering.

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All I got to drive at age 8 is the tractor lawnmower - and then only to pull the, er, leaf sweeper.

Sounds like a rough night. BTW, just how far DID you get? You managed to say "not even 80 miles" and "80 miles does not seem like an unreasonable expectation" all in the same post.

I've never driven down that far on my battery, but I can definitely agree that freeway driving (with hills especially) tends to use more energy and lower the range-o-meter faster.

I think the moral of the story for me is to stop and try to find a charging station or 120v trickle connection before the turtle mode runs out...

Randy

Congratulations and thanks for proving the car performs as expected!
From the Nissan LEAF website...On a single charge how far you'll go will depend on a number of variables a fully charged new battery has a range of 138 – 62 miles. It is too bad that you didn’t verify that charging on the L1 had started.

No Nissan dealers on the way ?

Since the EPA rates the range as 73 miles, you had a larger payload, didn't drive 55, and had some hills, you did somewhat better than I would have expected. Of course, that doesn't make it any less unpleasant to get stranded.

Hi friendnumber1,

Thank you for sharing your experience. I am still waiting for my Leaf so I cannot share my experience with you. But I plan to learn from your drive since my intention is to drive from Cupertino to SF (RT 86 miles) using I-280, the route you took. When I get to SF, I will be very careful to insure that the L1 charge available to me is working.

On flat level ground, in good weather and constant speed, I expect maximum range (draining it) to be appx this:

40 mph: 136 miles
45 mph: 124 miles
50 mph: 113 miles
55 mph: 102 miles
60 mph: 95 miles
65 mph: 85 miles
70 mph: 80 miles
75 mph: 71 miles
80 mph: 66 miles

So given rolling hills and the desire for about 10 miles of "buffer", I would not have attempted your trip of 80 miles at speeds over 60 mph unless you are able to L2 charge for an hour or more. Once one sees that they will be cutting it close to get to the closest charging point, it would be prudent to keep speeds as low as it is safe, but no slower than 20-25 mph or so (at which point efficiency goes down again).

Glad that you made it home without having to tow the vehicle and thanks for sharing!

PS - I would suggest taking 101 if possible most of the time if it doesn't increase the length of your trip - the speeds are lower and there are fewer hills.

... but 101 is ugly :lol:

drees said:

PS - I would suggest taking 101 if possible most of the time if it doesn't increase the length of your trip - the speeds are lower and there are fewer hills.

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davewill said:

Sounds like a rough night. BTW, just how far DID you get? You managed to say "not even 80 miles" and "80 miles does not seem like an unreasonable expectation" all in the same post.

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I'm guessing 80 miles minus two blocks?

If it was the evening he'd likely have been screwed anyway since none of the dealers seem to allow access to their chargers after hours. Nissan Corporate REALLY needs to address this and require every dealer to have at least one charger available 24/7, at least until there is a decent charging infrastructure in place. This is a big beef for me since I often drive in areas where there is nothing but Nissan dealer and it is often later in the evening.

evnow said:

No Nissan dealers on the way ?

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Your experience does cause me to think twice about completing my Leaf purchase.

The lesson learned is that a typical drive in the Bay Area can easily exceed the Leaf's range.  

Do I really want to deal with the inconvenience of needing to judge the distance of each daily drive? A few level 3 charging stations scattered around the Bay Area would deal with the range anxiety I'm feeling.

Thanks for the sobering reminder.

Thanks for posting your experience, friendnumber1, it must have been quite uncomfortable with your family on board, not knowing when you'd coast to a stop. Like evnow, I also wonder if there were any chances along the way to stop at a Nissan dealer and top up your charge. I think I'd certainly have been motivated to do that.

I'm still learning about the car's capabilities, and I do love owning and driving it. I've had some reasonable range outcomes, and one that was surprisingly short, though I was using the A/C on the freeway and driving in D at 73 mph or so, which explains a lot. I'm going to try not to go below the two red bars on the SOC display, just for peace of mind. From my brief experience of less than two weeks, I'm not going to expect to get further than 65 miles or so on the freeway on 100% charge before using up that last white bar.

We have a Prius for trips of more than 60 miles per day, so it's not a big deal to choose it when we need to go that far or further. But we'll use the LEAF as our primary car for all local driving and the Prius for other trips. I'm still expecting the LEAF to cover at least 70% of our driving, so I'm happy with the choice.

To green01, I'd recommend taking a close look at your usual driving distances to see how large a percentage of your driving could be done in the LEAF and what your options are for longer drives. One of our local Branch members uses the LEAF for her only car in the LA area and she seems very happy with it. It all boils down to your personal situation and what you expect of the car.

Here's how I see it. About 95% of my driving involves our routine commute from home to work (we carpool..). Fifty miles, roundtrip, in my relatively fuel-efficient ICE - I still spend about $45/week in gas at today's prices. Fifty miles is totally attainable at freeway speeds, even if I couldn't charge at work (though I plan to), and even with 20% battery degradation in ten years.

Now, for excursions - or the other 5% of driving - I will be using my aging ICE (soon to be relegated to the "back of the tandem garage" position). No range anxiety. In fact, if there is any question of whether I can make the trip, I will stick with my Mazda. I will regret not being able to drive the Leaf for these trips, but only because it is such a new and exciting car, and not because of today's technical limitations.

For us, the Leaf is an ideal car for 95% of our routine driving. It will translate into less reliance on foreign oil, less worry about volatile pump prices, and the ability to pat ones' own back about making a positive contribution to air quality.

I think the Leaf just needs to be seen as a part of one's own transportation "mix." One might ask, "does this trip require the sports car or the SUV?" The same decision making can be applied to whether to take the Leaf or your ICE for a particular outing. And, yes, I think as more public charging infrastructure (especially L3) is rolled out, it will become easier to test the boundaries of your range.

The Leaf is not really suitable for an 80-mile freeway roundtrip without charging halfway, especially if you're likely to make minor detours, and prefer to concentrate on the trip rather than the car. 60 miles would be no problem in the SF Bay area except for some near-freezing cold nights.

L1 charging only nets you about four miles an hour, L2 about ten miles an hour. If I were visiting a friend 40 miles away, I'm make sure they had a dryer outlet available and I had arranged for a portable L2 charger and adapter (Ingineer's unit for example), and a couple hours of charging. Or better yet, just take the wife's gas car - choose the right tool for the job.

We use our Leaf heavily for the daily commute and in-town errands, usually less than 50 miles per day, no worries. The gas cars get little use except for major excursions.

Thanks for the summary of your experience. I would not have expected to try an 80 mile round trip on unmeasured elevation, with passengers. There are just too many variables in that equation.

Thanks for sharing. You would have made it but for a friend's faulty outlet.
I understand the desire for an adventure. If you have a desire to try this again JUST to see if you can succeed, then you too understand that a two block push wasn't so bad. Your daughter will have a great time telling the story too. From her standpoint, it was a fantastic trip (wives are not always as forgiving).

Yes, it was two blocks short of 80 miles. And yes, I could have detoured to Broadway nissan but who knows if they would have been open. And yes, I know 101 would have been less hills. It is early on, the car wings database is only sparsely populated, and someday we will have quick charge stations every 50 miles on all freeways.

Someday.

I didn't post this to turn-off prospective buyers. Or to rant, or to seek help from the community. I just wanted to share the experience so that maybe others can avoid it.

We went into it as a test, but we could have been better prepared for that test. So, we got a D- (not an F since we didn't have to call roadside assistance). And it might have been better to take that test without the kids in tow.

If you think the expected range is conservative, it is not.
You should probably read the manual to learn how things work before you have to use them.
If you run out of juice, it is not the end of the world.

It is still a drag that when I want to travel down the coast for a surf, I can only drive 40 miles before I have to turn around.

Oh well, I can always take the highlander when I go to santa cruz.

It's good to pause and consider the real-world impact of under-estimating the battery.

I don't want a Volt because I frequently drive more than 35 miles (and yeah, it's expensive). If I think of the Leaf as a 60-70 mile range, it's less compelling than a 100 mile car.

100 miles will take me through any normal day, and the long ones.
80.. most days.
60, not so good. A drive from San Diego to Oceanside is 50 miles right there, so if I ran 10mi in errands or lunch, I could be pushing it home.

And like others have said, if I have to worry about this stuff every time I drive, it will really suck the fun out of it. "Sorry, can't go to Chili's for lunch -- it would be cutting it close later." Hmm..