LEAF finally coming to east coast.

I received an email form Nissan that east coast LEAF ordering is now available. My reservation from June 2010 is finally being called.
It appears the cold weather package will be on the cars shipped east for the cold winters.
Any LEAF owner experiences with cold temperature mileage range would be appreciated

I test drove the Leaf at Suffolk Downs on Saturday (7/30), its ok, nothing special, couldn't get it over 40mph with the traffic and the test track they provided, which included a short stint on public streets around Suffolk Downs, Nissan does put on a good "Dog and Pony" show, I have to give them that.

With the %7 price increase for the 2012 model (with the added battery pack heater, heated seats and steering wheel), it puts the 2 models at $35K and $37K now. Meanwhile, GM has lowered the price of the Volt (albeit removing 1/2 of the standard options), so now the Leaf and the Volt are almost the same price when they come to market on the East coast.

To add to this I was having the oil changed on my 2010 Prius on Saturday (after ther test drive), and the manager of the Toyota dealership I go to (Toyota of Braintree), tells me that pre-ordering for the 2012 PHEV Prius is going to open on August 2nd (Tuesday). Decisions Decisions.

My 1 way commute is 17 miles, and I can charge at work on 120V, the PHEV Prius is supposed to go about 13 miles on pure EV, almost enough for the 1 way commute, and for those few 100-125 mile days I have per month, I'd have no issue. Add to the fact that I have owned each generation Prius, and I'm more likely to just go with the PHEV Prius.

I think it's taken so long to get the Leaf to the East coast, there are just vastly more choices now, is what it comes down too, and I told Nissan that as well on the survey.

P.S. When I asked the Nissan people questions about the battery pack heater, such as "doesn't this reduce the range?" and "What is the wattage of the heater?", first she claimed the pack heater runs off the "aux batter" (the 12V battery), then I said, that is recharged from the main battery anyway, so it would not matter. They just don't "get it", "whats the effect on the range?" "we don't know", "whats the wattage on the pack heater?", "we aren't releasing that yet"
what a bunch of BS

Mitch

Thanks. The delay in almost a year does take the wind out of the LEAF's appeal to us east coast drivers. More options coming for 2012 from other car manufacturers. The Ford Focus EV could be interesting although I hear they just took the regular Focus and crammed batteries in it effectively reducing the storage capacity.
Interesting that 40mph was the best the LEAF could achieve. Even with a battery heater if the temperature low is 15 degrees and the high 28 degrees next January the 100 mile range is very suspect. Next Saturday the Drive Electric our is coming to Maryland so I will get a chance for a test drive.
I have a 15 mile commute one way to work so that leaves many options out there.
Theoretically it's great to have a license that says "no more gas."
I'm frankly surprised that with gas being $3.75 people are flying up I-95 at 80mph.
I had to stop driving my Honda Pilot as I was going crazy spending $65 a week to fill it.

mitch672 said:

...

My 1 way commute is 17 miles, and I can charge at work on 120V, the PHEV Prius is supposed to go about 13 miles on pure EV, almost enough for the 1 way commute, and for those few 100-125 mile days I have per month, I'd have no issue. Add to the fact that I have owned each generation Prius, and I'm more likely to just go with the PHEV Prius.
...

Mitch

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I have to say if only the PHEV Prius got 40 miles of EV range, I'd take it over the volt any day if I needed a PHEV of that size. I really wish Toyota would come out with the highlander as a PHEV, that would be an excellent match with the LEAF for us, virtually eliminating our use of gas. As for Nissan taking time to roll out in phases and possibly loosing their novelty edge, I don't think that's going to be a problem, they have had bumps in the road for sure but I do think they are doing a remarkably methodical job of getting this technology out there in tandom with lots of preparation and they will continue to get credit for a job well done, at least in the context of the first ever mass produced EV. Honestly, it's a miracle it's here and you guys on the East coast have, while it sucks having to wait, the advantage of being able to jump in with fewer unknowns and risks.

ditto on the PHEV Prius (at 40 miles) ... dependent on price.... for more
flexibility.

I did the Boston drive. I drove the loop twice (no one waiting in line - it seemed to be a very low turnout Sat mid morning!!) and was happy with the car. I do wish the tour could have had a more intense test drive more serious drivers could sign up for. more like a 30 min drive that actually got up to highway speeds etc. the certainly had enough staff and cars to have done that!

I have the usual compliant about the relatively uninformed marketing pitch they presenters used. One girl pushed the 100 mile range, and when questioned by a guy, did back down to the EPA 73mile as the "absolute worst case"


Now purchasing? As a NH resident in wave/tier 44, It's going to be tough to sit and watch Mass order earlier. I'm already working the Prius PHEV option - but I can't be too serious about that until price and features are announced. At least NH is in toyota's initial wave...

For a longer test drive, there is always the Hertz LEAF in NYC. It's been available since the beginning of April, however I'm guessing not too many have taken advantage of it, since it's still got less than 2000 miles on the odometer (and over 320 of those miles are mine).

I rented it for 48 hours and 275 miles last week. I was able to drive it in many conditions: city traffic, freeway, back roads, at night, etc. and it handled them all quite well. I had it up to 70 mph on the turnpike, no problem at all. Acceleration is so smooth and quiet the spedometer is the only clue as to when you get to speed. I didn't get to drive it in the rain, or of course, the snow.

Anyway, if a longer drive than the "Drive Electric" test is what it takes to convice you, the answer to your problem is sitting in Seward Park. My 47 mile drive in April and this latest 275 mile experience have made a believer out of me!

Impatiently waiting for LEAF ordering to begin in Pennsylvania,
Tim

essaunders said:

As a NH resident in wave/tier 44, It's going to be tough to sit and watch Mass order earlier.

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Same here in PA, Maryland is able to order now and NJ, 5 miles from my Nissan dealer, will be ordering this fall, and I'll still be waiting.

Dont forget that the Prius Plug-in wont get the full $7500 tax credit. Its wonderful Toyota is finally getting off their duff, they should have done it when they started to sell the 2010 Prius.. remember what they said? .. a good hot sauce will mask the taste of crow

the drive event was good. My 3.5 year old daughter enjoyed it too. I test fit her car seat in any number of configurations. I did give the tour director a complain about the Right Seat Driver's lack of knowledge (or unwillingness to slightly delay a drive to find out) the rules on car seat installation. My fault for not figuring it out before getting in line, perhaps, but I shouldn't feel pressured to drive the car in an "unsafe" configuration. The "unsafe" configuration is using latch (lower) in the center. The first RSD said, sure, I've checked and it's ok (I didn't verify). My second RSD said, put it in, I'll check the manual as we go. Just as we're about to leave the cones he finds the section in the manual saying outboard lower latch only. He refused to allow me to stop or deviate from the planned route to re secure the seat.

My compliant was the lack of knowledge of the RSD AND the lack of clarity of who is in charge. If I'm driving, I'm driver in charge, no matter what the tour wants.

Herm said:

Dont forget that the Prius Plug-in wont get the full $7500 tax credit. Its wonderful Toyota is finally getting off their duff, they should have done it when they started to sell the 2010 Prius.. remember what they said? .. a good hot sauce will mask the taste of crow

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From what I remember ... and without having time to check this carefully ... The $7,500 tax credit is indexed to the size of the battery. GM lobbied, so that the Volt's 16kWh battery (even if only 65% is used in regular driving) maxes out with the $7,500. How big is the Toyota plug-in Prius battery ... check your i's are dotted and t's crossed

I think 4kwh, but not sure if that has been fixed in stone yet.

I received a notice from Nissan to make a reservation for the "home eval" for the charging port location in my garage. I guess this means Nissan is serious about finally getting the car here in Maryland. They say i can't order the car until i get a passing grade on this. Plus it is $100 to get the electrical evaluation. Maybe this way they want to insure I'm serious about the electric car.
The LEAF has to be part of a 2 car equation for almost everybody. This cannot be your sole car.
Does it make sense to have 2 vehicles with 2 insurance payments instead of one car, i.e hybrid Prius or Honda or even a Volt that can deliver economy on fuel and longer range when needed?
I go from Maryland to Philadelphia once a month, 120 miles one way. Not LEAF territory.
This Saturday I get to take a drive in the LEAF when the tour comes to Maryland. if it is like the other driver experiences I probably will not get to do any real road testing of the car. I would like to get it up to 65mph. See how it does on the Washington Beltway.

Wow, looking at the new prices for the 2012 LEAF, the SL model is now $37,250. Add the home charging port and you are close to $40K. So much for affordability for all. It is now close to as expensive as the Volt. Another reason to seriously consider all the options before making this vehicle part of your family.

LEAFer said:

Herm said:

Dont forget that the Prius Plug-in wont get the full $7500 tax credit. Its wonderful Toyota is finally getting off their duff, they should have done it when they started to sell the 2010 Prius.. remember what they said? .. a good hot sauce will mask the taste of crow

Click to expand...

From what I remember ... and without having time to check this carefully ... The $7,500 tax credit is indexed to the size of the battery. GM lobbied, so that the Volt's 16kWh battery (even if only 65% is used in regular driving) maxes out with the $7,500. How big is the Toyota plug-in Prius battery ... check your i's are dotted and t's crossed

Click to expand...

Ok ... quoting myself :shock: ... but now spent some time looking it up.

And if Herm is correct ...

Herm said:

I think 4kwh, but not sure if that has been fixed in stone yet.

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Then the tax credit for the Toyota Plug-In Prius might be limited to $2,500. See Section 2 here.

chuck58 said:

I received a notice from Nissan to make a reservation for the "home eval" for the charging port location in my garage. I guess this means Nissan is serious about finally getting the car here in Maryland. They say i can't order the car until i get a passing grade on this. Plus it is $100 to get the electrical evaluation. Maybe this way they want to insure I'm serious about the electric car.
The LEAF has to be part of a 2 car equation for almost everybody. This cannot be your sole car.
Does it make sense to have 2 vehicles with 2 insurance payments instead of one car, i.e hybrid Prius or Honda or even a Volt that can deliver economy on fuel and longer range when needed?
I go from Maryland to Philadelphia once a month, 120 miles one way. Not LEAF territory.
This Saturday I get to take a drive in the LEAF when the tour comes to Maryland. if it is like the other driver experiences I probably will not get to do any real road testing of the car. I would like to get it up to 65mph. See how it does on the Washington Beltway.

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Chuck, I think your assessment is generally accurate. The LEAF is ideal for a person/couple/family who own two cars already and are looking to replace one for the bulk of their commuting. Your trip to Philly once a month will eventually be possible once a QC charging network is in place with a single 25 minute charge somewhere half way on the journey. For the west coast, that's going to be pretty soon, the treck of 1-5 from the Canadian border to Northern California is slated to be complete by November 30 of this year with DC fast chargers roughly every 40 miles. Assuming it flies, the charging network could catch on and spread quickly since an electricity infrastructure is already largely in place.

As for driving the car, I grew up driving I-95 from PA to DC and I know it's hard to take another person's word for it, but I've easily gotten the Leaf up to 85 mph, it handles the freeway very well, even more important, it handles traffic jams very well. I would not recommend the LEAF if your commute is more than 70 miles one way by freeway, as driving over 65 can really take a toll on range, it does in a gas car as well but it's less noticeable with a large gas tank.

chuck58 said:

Wow, looking at the new prices for the 2012 LEAF, the SL model is now $37,250. Add the home charging port and you are close to $40K. So much for affordability for all. It is now close to as expensive as the Volt. Another reason to seriously consider all the options before making this vehicle part of your family.

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I'm not sure how much longer the EV project will be handing out free Charging stations, but ours was free and the price is coming down. The new version of the LEAF has more standard features, stuff that so many of us opted to get in the 2011 that they made it standard or we would have gotten it anyway had we been given the option. I loved the heated seats in our jetta! The new standard includes the DC fast charging port and heated seats/steering wheel and battery warmer. Your getting quite a bit more included as standard whereas the Volt dropped a bunch of standard stuff to look more competitive. The volt is still a lot more, and, as a second car you'll be paying a premium to haul around that heavy gas generator and gas tank for how little it gets used. Where the volt makes more sense is if it's your only car, then it's a whole other story... it definitely has a niche until the charging network is in place.

chuck58 said:

This Saturday I get to take a drive in the LEAF when the tour comes to Maryland. if it is like the other driver experiences I probably will not get to do any real road testing of the car. I would like to get it up to 65mph. See how it does on the Washington Beltway.

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I took the test drive at the tour stop at National Harbor and plan to attend the stop at Philly in a couple weeks. It's true you don't get to highway speed. But I've taken the chance to rent the Hertz LEAF from NYC twice for a total of over 320 miles and I've had it up to 70 MPH on the Turnpike. It accelerates extremely smoothly and plenty quickly. The car is very stable at 70 MPH. Nothing to worry about. If it is really important for you to experience this firsthand, the Hertz LEAF awaits at Seward Park in NYC.

BTW -- the LEAF will be my only car, when I am allowed to buy it here in PA. I maybe make a trip once a year outside the LEAF's range; I can rent a car for that.