Mschop
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:17 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Jan 2018

Re: 8 bar battery replacement metrics

Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:28 pm

Hi!

Hoping to make a purchase soon and I’ve been reading all the great content in this website. I have a question that I can’t seem to figure out based on everyone’s responses to when they saw their 9th bar drop.

I recently checked out a 2013 Leaf that was for sale. The leaf has 40k miles with warranty ending this coming end of March. Currently has 9 bars - owner said it was previously at 12 then it dropped to 9 over a short period of a month a few months ago. He’s the second owner and purchased it in 2016. I called the 1800-ev number and they confirmed warranty is still good from what they see in system.

I used Leafspy and here’s the summary:
Ahr: 40.80
Soh: 60.39%
Hx: 54.41%
GIDs: 166 or 59.1%

Question to forum: shouldn’t this have dropped to 8 bars by now? These numbers seem like outliers compared to everyone else’s that have reported losing their 9h bar. Am I missing something or is there something fishy?
Last edited by Mschop on Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cwerdna
Posts: 8218
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 8 bar battery replacement metrics

Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:33 pm

Mschop wrote: Currently has 9 bars - owner said it was previously at 12 then it dropped to 9 over a short period of a month. He’s the second owner and purchased it in 2016.

That car almost certainly had its BMS reset (like http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/11 ... -read.html) and it took a bit for the car to relearn the # of bars and reflect that in the dash.

No normally functioning '13 Leaf will drop from 12 to 9 bars in a month.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Mschop
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:17 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Jan 2018

Re: 8 bar battery replacement metrics

Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:42 pm

cwerdna wrote:
Mschop wrote: Currently has 9 bars - owner said it was previously at 12 then it dropped to 9 over a short period of a month. He’s the second owner and purchased it in 2016.

That car almost certainly had its BMS reset (like http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/11 ... -read.html) and it took a bit for the car to relearn the # of bars and reflect that in the dash.

No normally functioning '13 Leaf will drop from 12 to 9 bars in a month.


I suspect you’re right.

Is there any reason to believe this wouldn’t qualify for a warranty replacement? Based on the leafspy findings, this should be a clear case to get a new battery even though it doesn’t yet show 8 bars on the dash.

cwerdna
Posts: 8218
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 8 bar battery replacement metrics

Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:49 pm

Mschop wrote: Is there any reason to believe this wouldn’t qualify for a warranty replacement? Based on the leafspy findings, this should be a clear case to get a new battery even though it doesn’t yet show 8 bars on the dash.

If you have until end of March, I think you'll reach 8 bars by then. You can take some steps now to try to accelerate the degradation, if you want to be more sure.

It's extremely unlikely a dealer will start the ball rolling for a replacement w/Leaf Spy readings. That's not an official Nissan tool and Nissan has never (AFAIK) acknowledged anything on the CAN bus or anything Leaf Spy can render. It's going to need to be down to 8 visible capacity bars or less.

The language in the warranty is by capacity bars. Search https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/te ... ooklet.pdf for bars.

I don't follow the bar drop metrics closely since I only lost my 1st bar on my used '13 a bit over a month ago. I bought this used '13 in July 2015 and put over 26K miles on it.

viewtopic.php?p=508824#p508824 was a pretty late '13 4th bar dropper. Yet this '13 at viewtopic.php?p=504817#p504817, has better stats that the one you're looking at and lost its 4th bar.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

baustin
Posts: 658
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: 8 bar battery replacement metrics

Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:11 am

The first link above is my car. I was getting concerned that the last bar would not drop before the warranty was up, and started driving the car more. I drove it very little during the summer, due to the range loss. The Leaf electronics appears to slow down the drop rate during cold weather, and when not being driven regularly. The only advice I can provide is to drive it hard, drive it often, and keep it charged to 100% when not driving it. If you have a warm place to park it when not driving, take advantage of that. You have a good chance of getting that bar to drop before the warranty is up.

Nissan draws a very hard line with warranty replacements. They won't even consider it until the 9th bar has dropped, and will deny it if one day or one mile over the limit. As far as Nissan is concerned, Leaf Spy does not exist and any data it provides will be completely ignored by them. They only recognize the dashboard display and readings from their Consult tool.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

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keydiver
Posts: 1080
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:04 pm
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Leaf Number: 16484
Location: Hobe Sound, Florida
Contact: Website

Re: 8 bar battery replacement metrics

Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:08 pm

Mschop wrote: Is there any reason to believe this wouldn’t qualify for a warranty replacement? Based on the leafspy findings, this should be a clear case to get a new battery even though it doesn’t yet show 8 bars on the dash.


As others have said, don't even bother talking to Nissan unless your 9th bar disappears. They couldn't care less.
Where are you located? It may be really tough to lose another bar in 2-3 months, depending upon your climate, how hard you drive the Leaf, and how close it is right now. It sounds to me like the guy who owns it now figured out that he got ripped off by a reset BMS, didn't think he could lose another bar by March, so is trying to unload it quickly. How much is he asking for it?
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Mschop
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:17 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Jan 2018

Re: 8 bar battery replacement metrics

Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:17 pm

keydiver wrote:
Mschop wrote: Is there any reason to believe this wouldn’t qualify for a warranty replacement? Based on the leafspy findings, this should be a clear case to get a new battery even though it doesn’t yet show 8 bars on the dash.


As others have said, don't even bother talking to Nissan unless your 9th bar disappears. They couldn't care less.
Where are you located? It may be really tough to lose another bar in 2-3 months, depending upon your climate, how hard you drive the Leaf, and how close it is right now. It sounds to me like the guy who owns it now figured out that he got ripped off by a reset BMS, didn't think he could lose another bar by March, so is trying to unload it quickly. How much is he asking for it?


Thanks. He’s asking for 7k.

Located in Northern California.

I think you’re right on the bms reset but what gets me is the leafspy results. Data seems to skew to “any day now” vs the “still need to drive more to get into the zone” for a drop.

Mschop
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:17 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Jan 2018

Re: 8 bar battery replacement metrics

Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:10 pm

baustin wrote:The first link above is my car. I was getting concerned that the last bar would not drop before the warranty was up, and started driving the car more. I drove it very little during the summer, due to the range loss. The Leaf electronics appears to slow down the drop rate during cold weather, and when not being driven regularly. The only advice I can provide is to drive it hard, drive it often, and keep it charged to 100% when not driving it. If you have a warm place to park it when not driving, take advantage of that. You have a good chance of getting that bar to drop before the warranty is up.

Nissan draws a very hard line with warranty replacements. They won't even consider it until the 9th bar has dropped, and will deny it if one day or one mile over the limit. As far as Nissan is concerned, Leaf Spy does not exist and any data it provides will be completely ignored by them. They only recognize the dashboard display and readings from their Consult tool.


Thanks for the advice. I just read your post in other thread where you posted the following stats: Aug 12, 2017 - AHr=39.25, SOH=60%, Hx=53.34%, odo=25,451 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2119

I noticed the manufacturing date of the car I'm looking at is February 2013 so I'm wondering if it will follow a similar pattern to yours (before the 4/2013 battery switch that I read about).

baustin
Posts: 658
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: 8 bar battery replacement metrics

Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:25 am

Mschop wrote:
baustin wrote:The first link above is my car. I was getting concerned that the last bar would not drop before the warranty was up, and started driving the car more. I drove it very little during the summer, due to the range loss. The Leaf electronics appears to slow down the drop rate during cold weather, and when not being driven regularly. The only advice I can provide is to drive it hard, drive it often, and keep it charged to 100% when not driving it. If you have a warm place to park it when not driving, take advantage of that. You have a good chance of getting that bar to drop before the warranty is up.

Nissan draws a very hard line with warranty replacements. They won't even consider it until the 9th bar has dropped, and will deny it if one day or one mile over the limit. As far as Nissan is concerned, Leaf Spy does not exist and any data it provides will be completely ignored by them. They only recognize the dashboard display and readings from their Consult tool.


Thanks for the advice. I just read your post in other thread where you posted the following stats: Aug 12, 2017 - AHr=39.25, SOH=60%, Hx=53.34%, odo=25,451 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2119

I noticed the manufacturing date of the car I'm looking at is February 2013 so I'm wondering if it will follow a similar pattern to yours (before the 4/2013 battery switch that I read about).


This is the reading on the day the ninth bar dropped: Oct 12, 2017 - AHr=36.81, SOH=56%, Hx=49.75%, odo=25,670 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2242

My AHr reading was one of the lowest I've read about when it dropped. Most of them have been in the 40-43AHr range. Yours should drop sooner, if being regularly driven. However, getting that drop during winter/spring in a cooler climate, is going to be tough.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

Mschop
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:17 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Jan 2018

Re: 8 bar battery replacement metrics

Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:44 pm

Thanks for the advice everyone. Purchased the car last night - still showed 9 bars. Range was a less than expected at ~35mi freeway through some foothills. Did a full charge at an L2 station.

After a light drive this morning, car finally showed 8 bars with the following stats:
AHR: 40.50
SOH: 61.93%
HX: 53.93%

Took it to Nissan and they're going to do their test tomorrow to verify I qualify.

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