Help me compare two Leafs

I am considering purchasing a Nissan Leaf SV. I have two options. One has 26K miles with 12 capacity bars. The other is 34K miles and 11 capacity bars, with the premium package (not particularly important to me).

Complicating things is that the lower mileage leaf was manufactured before 4/2013, and the lower capacity leaf was manufactured after 4/2013. I understand from this board that the post-4/2013 leaf will have an improved battery.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or opinions to help me make up my mind as to whether or not I should bite at all, and if so, on which one. The low mileage, full capacity leaf costs $8,600. The other leaf costs $7,600.

I live in a flat area, and would mostly be driving 60 or 65 on the interstate. What sort of real-life range could I expect with one capacity bar missing?

I've owned a 2012 Leaf for one year - and have had the battery replaced under warranty in November. I'd guess it would have slightly more range than either of your choices. Real world on flat interstate highway trips with limiting speed of around 60 mph is about 70-75 miles. Tires need replacing, but I do keep them around 40 psi. With one bar gone you have at least a 15% loss - or at most 60-65 miles of consistent highway driving. Attempting these types of essentially all freeway trips can cause the dreaded "range anxiety" as the GOM (guess of meter) does it's deep dive early in the trip!

I use LeafSpy Pro and calculate range based on GID readings under various travel conditions. Around "suburbia" with average speeds in the 20-30 mph range I get about .33 miles/GID. Freeway driving drops to about .27 with an average speed of 50-60 mph. I'd expect that at 65 mph, it might drop to .25 or even lower.

If you live in area that has the quick chargers, having the quick charge port makes extending range a "quick stop for coffee". I believe the SV's have that, but I'd make sure it does.

There have been a very few pre-April 2013 Leafs that have held capacity. Assuming that the one you're looking at hasn't had the BMS reset (and I'd look into that carefully), maybe it's one of them. I'd say, though, that given the circumstance (for sale at a dealership) a reset is probably more likely. Run LeafSpy on it and see if the AH reading is in line with the other readings.

Also keep in mind that the date of purchase doesn't matter if it's later than April. It's the date of manufacture, as shown on the door sill label.

Hard to tell without knowing the battery health of each. It's possible the 12 bar leaf might be losing a bar soon. Regardless, if it were me, I'd go after the cheaper one.

Given the high possibility that the early build car has had the BMS reset, and could have 10 bars (or 8, which would actually be great if it's eligible for a new free pack), I'd definitely check it.

I edited my original post -- the lower capacity vehicle was manufactured, not purchased, after 4/2013.

It sounds like the lower mileage, higher capacity vehicle is very likely to degrade quickly, which would put it at the same capacity, but with a worse package, than the other one.

While most of my driving is on the highway, it would all be under 50 miles total (three or four ~10 mile trips per day between locations). Is 50 highway miles at 60 MPH, with moderate climate control (a/c or heat) usage, a reasonable thing to ask of a 2013 with 11 bars?

Regarding manufacture dates, another issue to consider is that the early 2013's had some assembly quality issues. Production had just moved (for US/Canadian market cars) from Japan to Tennessee, and some issues that I recall from those early cars based on the posts here:

1. Leaky windshields
2. Unconnected A/C condensate hoses that would drain directly into the driver's footwell rather than outside the car
3. Defective Power Distribution Modules
4. In one case, a Leaf S that came with a leather rear seat cushion meant for a Leaf SL

I have a 2013 with 11 bars also and live in a hilly area, and I still can get about 60 miles on a full charge.

Recently I did a 36 mile trip at 55 MPH and got back home with 13 miles left (~50 mile range), but that on only 80% charge and it was uphill all the way back. Extrapolating to a full charge would have been about 60 mile range on that too. So, let's say being in a flat area cancels out going 5 mph faster (seems fairly reasonable), I think you should be able to do it.

That being said, the exact distances matter. With a car like the Leaf there's a big difference between 30 or 40 miles (3 or 4 ten mile trips) and 50 miles. I think 40 miles or so should be no problem. 50 miles is probably also OK, but there's less margin for error, and further battery degradation could cause a problem. If there was a possibility of charging up during the day that would obviously be a plus.

I don't know how quickly you need to make a decision, but next week I'll be doing another approximately 30 mile round trip and I plan to run it at 65 mph this time. So, if you can wait, I can let you know how it goes. I'll start with 100% charge, and track the total trip distance and the exact SoC at the end. From that it should be possible to calculate my total range, and that could serve as a decent proxy for the car in question.

Please do post the numbers when you take that trip.

I am champing at the bit to move forward, but realistically it will likely be at least a week or two before I commit unless another Leaf shows up that ticks all of the boxes.

jstur said:

Please do post the numbers when you take that trip.

I am champing at the bit to move forward, but realistically it will likely be at least a week or two before I commit unless another Leaf shows up that ticks all of the boxes.

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I made the trip as planned. It was a total of 34.3 miles and required pretty much exactly 60% charge (99% to 39%). Extrapolated out to the full battery capacity that puts the range at 57.17 miles. That's pretty close to my other trips, where total range calculated out to about 60 miles.

Speed was approximately 65 mph on the freeway, and then normal speeds (30-40 mph) on the surface streets. The first half of the trip was down hill most of the way to the coast, and the second half was uphill. Leaf Range Estimator shows a total drop of 1167 feet of elevation, and then a gain of 1167 feet of elevation. Climate control use was minimal, although it was raining.

Going up and down hill is less efficient than just being on the level, so, if you live in a pretty flat area I think 60 miles should be easily achievable. I'm guessing that actual range in a flatter area is probably closer to 70 miles even with one bar gone.

jstur said:

While most of my driving is on the highway, it would all be under 50 miles total (three or four ~10 mile trips per day between locations). Is 50 highway miles at 60 MPH, with moderate climate control (a/c or heat) usage, a reasonable thing to ask of a 2013 with 11 bars?

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A new 24 kWh battery is rated for ~ 84 miles using the entire capacity. Your use case is probably 90 - 95 miles in temperate weather.

11 bars means that 15% is lost from the first bar and the battery is somewhere in the range of the next 6.5% bar loss. So worse case today, the car has ~ 80% of new range. You really do not want to own a car that routinely goes below 15% by the end of the day. Too much range anxiety, and no buffer for bad weather, delays and the unforeseen.

So figure the car has 65% capacity.
Now take into account further aging -- I'd say 5% a year, but more if you charge up to 100% almost daily. In three years you are down to 50%
That places you at 45 miles a charge range ... before you heat the car.

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Do yourself a favor -- get LEAFspy and buy a car with most of the first bar intact, meaning at least 62 Ah. I just bought a late 2013 'S' with 6.6/QC for $8300 and ~ 64 Ah, meaning about 97% of new car battery capacity. I'll be able to avoid stressing the battery with 100% charges or deep discharges with few exceptions and hopefully enjoy a decade of productive use.

Your other good choice is to buy new and take advantage of the current great $10k rebate Excel energy is offering. I think that works out to about $15k for a 30 kWh car if you qualify for the $7500 federal tax credit.