[Please Advice] The last barrier between me and buying a leaf

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amralomari

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2017
Messages
8
Location
Amman, Jordan
The last barrier between me and buying a leaf.
Dear leaf owners
I've spent the last 3 months learning about the car and I totally love it (and I need a car 'cause mine become very old :D and leaf is the perfect car) but I have a final issue;
*If I'm going to buy a leaf I've no choice but to take a 5 years loan from the bank (5% interest rate),
* and I'll buy a used 2015
* and I cruise around 2000km (1242 miles ) per month
so on my estimate, I'll lose a bar per year
When I finish the loan my car will be at 7 bars, which is worthless and I'll sell it with an enormous loss.
This is if the price of batteries didn't drop and I keep cruising the same distance for the next 5 years etc. etc.

So what's your advice gentlemen? :roll:
 
I've got over 40,000 miles (60,000km) on my 2013 Leaf and still have 12 bars. What is your climate? Hot weather is what kills batteries. If you have cool average weather (even very hot days are ok if it cools off at night) you should be ok.
 
Judging by "kilometers" the OP is either in Canada or the UK, although not necessarily. In the UK or Northern Canada a 2015 with, say, 97% SOH should drop maybe a bar every two to three years, by my guesstimate...

My 2013 also has 12 bars, although it's really closer to 11 now.
 
Now that I did, I'm sure why I did it, but when I bought my car I got an extended warranty through the used car dealer (it's a dealership that specializes in used cars.) I've got five years and if I lose 4 bars in that time they say they'll replace it for free.

If you're worried about it you might be able to get an extended warranty too. Even buying a 2015 will give you some warranty.
 
IssacZachary said:
Now that I did, I'm sure why I did it, but when I bought my car I got an extended warranty through the used car dealer (it's a dealership that specializes in used cars.) I've got five years and if I lose 4 bars in that time they say they'll replace it for free.

If you're worried about it you might be able to get an extended warranty too. Even buying a 2015 will give you some warranty.
Click to expand...
Extended warranties do not cover the traction battery, no matter what the salesman said...
 
Firetruck41 said:
IssacZachary said:
Now that I did, I'm sure why I did it, but when I bought my car I got an extended warranty through the used car dealer (it's a dealership that specializes in used cars.) I've got five years and if I lose 4 bars in that time they say they'll replace it for free.

If you're worried about it you might be able to get an extended warranty too. Even buying a 2015 will give you some warranty.
Click to expand...
Extended warranties do not cover the traction battery, no matter what the salesman said...
Click to expand...
Really!? Uhoh!
 
Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?
amralomari said:
* and I'll buy a used 2015
* and I cruise around 2000km (1242 miles ) per month
so on my estimate, I'll lose a bar per year
Click to expand...
Why do you say that? In some climates it could be that bad but not all.

My 5/2013 built used '13 Leaf is at 41K miles and still have all 12 capacity bars. I bought it in July 2015. It's getting closer to losing a capacity bar though. I recently learned of someone in the Pacific Northwest with a '13 (IIRC) Leaf that didn't loes their first capacity bar until 86K miles.

I do expect to lose a capacity bar before the summer is up, so at about 4 years.
 
IssacZachary said:
Firetruck41 said:
IssacZachary said:
Now that I did, I'm sure why I did it, but when I bought my car I got an extended warranty through the used car dealer (it's a dealership that specializes in used cars.) I've got five years and if I lose 4 bars in that time they say they'll replace it for free.

If you're worried about it you might be able to get an extended warranty too. Even buying a 2015 will give you some warranty.
Click to expand...
Extended warranties do not cover the traction battery, no matter what the salesman said...
Click to expand...
Really!? Uhoh!
Click to expand...
Unless you have it in writing that it does.

There was one weirdo on a Leaf Facebook group that INSISTED his did. When asked for proof of a contract stating it, we never got it. I don't recall if he just went silent or dodged the question.
 
There are HVAC issues with the 2013 especially that might make the extended warranty worthwhile, although that too would have to be explicitly covered. The best bet is Nissan's own "Gold preferred" plan, which covers everything significant except the pack. Jim Bone Nissan sells them at a reasonable price.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Judging by "kilometers" the OP is either in Canada or the UK.
Click to expand...

In the UK long distances are still measured in miles, speed limit is still in MPH (30 in town, 60 on single carriageway, 70 on double carriageway and motorway), and cars still use MPH speedometers. They've gone to the metric system for most other things, though they still like to use "stone" to denote a person's weight.
 
IssacZachary said:
I've got over 40,000 miles (60,000km) on my 2013 Leaf and still have 12 bars. What is your climate? Hot weather is what kills batteries. If you have cool average weather (even very hot days are ok if it cools off at night) you should be ok.
Click to expand...

Awesome :D
I'm in Amman, in summer sometimes it gets hot, but yes it cools at night.
 
cwerdna said:
Unless you have it in writing that it does.

There was one weirdo on a Leaf Facebook group that INSISTED his did. When asked for proof of a contract stating it, we never got it. I don't recall if he just went silent or dodged the question.
Click to expand...

Sorry for derailing the thread with my extended warranty situation.

All the fine print says is "extend you original manufacturer's warranty up to 84 months." Prime Autocare Exclusionary: http://www.primeautocare.com/assets/PrimeACPrimeBrochure_noEdit.pdf

Glad you're not in a hot zone. May I ask where Amman is? [Edit] Oh! Jordan! I just Googled it.
 
cwerdna said:
Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?
amralomari said:
* and I'll buy a used 2015
* and I cruise around 2000km (1242 miles ) per month
so on my estimate, I'll lose a bar per year
Click to expand...
Why do you say that? In some climates it could be that bad but not all.

My 5/2013 built used '13 Leaf is at 41K miles and still have all 12 capacity bars. I bought it in July 2015. It's getting closer to losing a capacity bar though. I recently learned of someone in the Pacific Northwest with a '13 (IIRC) Leaf that didn't loes their first capacity bar until 86K miles.

I do expect to lose a capacity bar before the summer is up, so at about 4 years.
Click to expand...

done updating

approximately I drive around 25 miles on the highway and around 7 miles in the city (round trip)
and I can charge at my work (220 V) and there are quick chargers on the way too.
 
Your original estimate may be closer than ours, IF your nights aren't cool enough to allow the car's battery pack to cool a lot before and during charging. I'd estimate that the nights need to get down to 15C - 20C to cool effectively. A fan aimed into the car's air cooling ducts at night might help. Seriously, though, if you can get a car with active battery cooling like a Volt, I'd suggest that instead. You can get some cooling from the Leaf's A/C by leaving the recirculation off and running the fan on a higher setting, with all windows closed, to force cooled air down into the pack, but that isn't really active cooling...
 
LeftieBiker said:
Your original estimate may be closer than ours, IF your nights aren't cool enough to allow the car's battery pack to cool a lot before and during charging. I'd estimate that the nights need to get down to 15C - 20C to cool effectively. A fan aimed into the car's air cooling ducts at night might help. Seriously, though, if you can get a car with active battery cooling like a Volt, I'd suggest that instead. You can get some cooling from the Leaf's A/C by leaving the recirculation off and running the fan on a higher setting, with all windows closed, to force cooled air down into the pack, but that isn't really active cooling...
Click to expand...

this is a great advice from you
I definitely will need it in the next summer :)
 
amralomari said:
LeftieBiker said:
Your original estimate may be closer than ours, IF your nights aren't cool enough to allow the car's battery pack to cool a lot before and during charging. I'd estimate that the nights need to get down to 15C - 20C to cool effectively. A fan aimed into the car's air cooling ducts at night might help. Seriously, though, if you can get a car with active battery cooling like a Volt, I'd suggest that instead. You can get some cooling from the Leaf's A/C by leaving the recirculation off and running the fan on a higher setting, with all windows closed, to force cooled air down into the pack, but that isn't really active cooling...
Click to expand...

this is a great advice from you
I definitely will need it in the next summer :)
Click to expand...

You cannot cool the battery with the A/C because the air flow from the condenser flows over the top of the battery to exit at the rear of the car. The A/C will probably warm the battery slightly if the car is sitting still for a long time and is likely why Nissan limited the maximum output of the A/C compressor at low speeds with a software update on the 2011 and continued that limitation at least through 2015. Air flow from driving will cool the battery, but I see battery temperature increase when I slow down or stop in Phoenix summer driving.

Gerry
 
You cannot cool the battery with the A/C because the air flow from the condenser flows over the top of the battery to exit at the rear of the car. The A/C will probably warm the battery slightly if the car is sitting still for a long time and is likely why Nissan limited the maximum output of the A/C compressor at low speeds with a software update on the 2011 and continued that limitation at least through 2015. Air flow from driving will cool the battery, but I see battery temperature increase when I slow down or stop in Phoenix summer driving.
Click to expand...

There is a topic on this here somewhere. One of the posters here discovered that there is a path for air to flow down over the battery from the cabin floor, if there is positive pressure inside the cabin (the fresh air intake is open). I'm sure that there are conditions in which the condenser heat will warm the battery, but there should also be situations in which the pack gets a net cooling. A prevailing breeze behind or at right angles (when parked) to the car should do it.
 
Jordan is a hot climate for a LEAF.
I'd say too hot unless you don't mind buying another car in a couple of years.
 
amralomari said:
cwerdna said:
Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?
amralomari said:
* and I'll buy a used 2015
* and I cruise around 2000km (1242 miles ) per month
so on my estimate, I'll lose a bar per year
Click to expand...
Why do you say that? In some climates it could be that bad but not all.

My 5/2013 built used '13 Leaf is at 41K miles and still have all 12 capacity bars. I bought it in July 2015. It's getting closer to losing a capacity bar though. I recently learned of someone in the Pacific Northwest with a '13 (IIRC) Leaf that didn't loes their first capacity bar until 86K miles.

I do expect to lose a capacity bar before the summer is up, so at about 4 years.
Click to expand...

done updating

approximately I drive around 25 miles on the highway and around 7 miles in the city (round trip)
and I can charge at my work (220 V) and there are quick chargers on the way too.
Click to expand...

If your round trip distance is only 32 miles (16 miles each way), you should be able to drive that route even after losing 5 or 6 bars. I was able to make my daily commute of 52 miles (26 miles each way) with my 2011 when it was down to 8 bars before Nissan replaced the battery. I finally lost the first capacity bar on the 2015 at 29,936 miles and 20 months (2011 was down to 8 bars at a little over 2 years and 30,000 miles). Since you plan to buy a used 2015 with 12 bars showing (but likely some battery deterioration), your estimate of losing 1 bar per year is reasonable for a warm climate. If the LEAF will be your only car, make sure the car you buy has the QC port and you have access to quick chargers in case you need to drive extra distance some days.

Gerry
 
Actually, if you're driving a lot and you're in a hot climate, the battery might degrade fast enough for you to get the battery replaced under warranty. If not, the replacement pack only costs I think $5500 (at least in the U.S.). In 4-5 years, I'd hope it was maybe $3000. The price of batteries is coming down quite fast, however that isn't directly connected to the cost of the replacement since it's already apparently subsidized by Nissan.
 

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