evnow
Well-known member
http://www.hybridcars.com/news/nissan-gears-us-leaf-production-doubling-workforce-smyrna-plant-42208.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nissan Gears Up for US LEAF Production by Doubling Workforce
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TomT
Well-known member
So, this tells me that either the 2013s will be making a very late introduction in the U.S. or that the first 2013s will be coming from Japan...
evnow said:
AndyH
Well-known member
That's up to us - remind all that ask that the infrastructure is in our garage - and that's all we need to start.downeykp said:
Nekota
Well-known member
Maybe the local US built vehicles will be much cheaper - I'm guessing about 12% lower costs and lower shipping costs of approximately $500?
Anyone have savings estimates? I'm suggesting $4500.
Anyone have savings estimates? I'm suggesting $4500.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
There's no pressure on Nissan to either lower the price or make the car go a further range, until the tax handouts stop.
Then, when Nissan has sold 200,000 units, the tax breaks will expire, but that's many years away. Whatever better battery shows up in 2015 will only make the car cheaper and lighter, but it won't have a longer range. Neither will the i3 BMW.
I predict the car price will fall into the range of the current car with all the tax breaks... about $30k MSRP for a "100 mile" electric car.
Then, when Nissan has sold 200,000 units, the tax breaks will expire, but that's many years away. Whatever better battery shows up in 2015 will only make the car cheaper and lighter, but it won't have a longer range. Neither will the i3 BMW.
I predict the car price will fall into the range of the current car with all the tax breaks... about $30k MSRP for a "100 mile" electric car.
LakeLeaf
Well-known member
garsh
Well-known member
Have you never taken a road trip?Smidge204 said:
The *only* reason I'm getting a Leaf is to be my 2nd, commuter car. If I only had one vehicle, I would never consider it. Even a 30-minute Level 3 charge takes much too long compared to a 3-minute fillup on a long drive. And most Americans will feel the same way. I think the Leaf will be lucky to sell in numbers comparable to 2-seat sports cars. I hope I'm wrong.
I kinda doubt it...garsh said:
How often do you go on "road trips" to warrant owning two vehicles? It's one thing if you're already a two vehicle household of course, but to own a second vehicle just for that is absurd IMHO. If it really comes down to that, you might as well admit that the LEAF (or any current gen EV) is not a car for you.
I HAVE gone on road trips. Any you know what? I'd rather rent than put the wear and tear on my own car anyway. I've never had a situation where I'd have to drive beyond current EV range without any warning or preparation, and I'd like to think I'm resourceful enough to make other arrangements if that ever did happen.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that owning an EV may require a change in lifestyle for some, but I think more people can get by with just a change in mindset. Are charging networks that critical? No - just ask the ~10,000 LEAF owners out there, and thousands of other EV owners who have been doing without public charging for over a decade.
And why are you comparing a hatchback like the LEAF to a 2-seat convertible?
=Smidge=
Don't get me wrong. I have never charged anywhere other than my garage. However, the masses will not want to have to do as much calculating on distances as we do. Most will only care that the new mall is 60 miles away and they will want a charger at the mall that will let them recharge while they shop. In this instance a 220 charge is all they will need.Smidge204 said:
adric22
Well-known member
You know, it is kind of surprising that Toyota is still making the Prius in Japan. At one point they were talking about building it here in the USA, then changed their minds.evnow said:
I'd really like to know what Nissan's profit margin is on the current Leafs sold in the USA. (if any) because that would greatly help understand if they plan to lower the price when the start building them here.
adric22 said:
Ghosn is taking a long-term gamble on the technology, essentially the same way Toyota did with the Prius. Toyota assumed that the Prius would lose money until the technology reached a tipping point and gained acceptance, which is exactly what happened. Now, every major auto manufacturer has a hybrid platform. Certainly Honda was there first with the Impulse but they cut their losses quickly. Toyota stuck to it, took the losses and then recouped them in volume as the technology gained acceptance.
Will Nissan succeed? Hard to say. It's an EV bloodbath, right now: Fisker, Aptera, the Volt halting production, sales of the Leaf slowing. Nissan and Tesla seem like they're doing the right things. Whether that means the technology will cross the chasm is hard to say.
edatoakrun
Well-known member
adric22 said:
I don't think there is much doubt that Nissan is losing a substantial sum, on each LEAF sold in the US.
LEAFs are currently being built in relatively tiny quantities, with the highest wage rates (and probably supplier wage rates as well) in the world. And the recent strength of the yen vs dollar has only made the LEAF, a greater loss-leader for Nissan.
I very much doubt there will be any lowering of the price once US production begins. I would expect prices to be increased to account for new features, in the future, just as was done between 2011-12.
Nissan is well aware that resale value is something all past and the much larger number of future BEV drivers will be wondering about, and the easiest way to boost resale value, is to avoid the market competition, which would be caused by lower priced newer models. Nissan is looking to maintain profit margins years ahead, and the lack of competing BEV models, by other manufacturers, is giving them an excellent market opportunity to sell LEAFs, and other BEVs, at higher prices (and profitably) in the future.
If there is not enough US demand, Nissan will simply sell US made LEAFs, in more profitable markets.
TomT
Well-known member
And if we follow that same model, the price of the Prius was never dropped over the years. It became a nicer vehicle with more features, but the actual price point was never lowered. I suspect the same will happen with the Leaf, at least for a number of years... To a significant extent, government rebates will also dictate the price point...
Jagular said:
Nubo
Well-known member
garsh said:
Keep in mind the Miata is one of the unqualified successes of the automotive world. As far as LEAF, that is just one platform that might use the Smyrna batteries.
A 2-seat roadster isn't for everyone. Neither is an EV. There are plenty of people like you that have access to 2 cars.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
"Where will all these cars be sold?"
apparently not all of us are aware of the global shortages of Leafs. i guess we need to pay attention to our Midwest members when they talk about their dashboard.
right now there is an estimate worldwide demand of 100,000+ units a years. Nissan's current capacity is 50,000. many here complain about price. we do know that until there is a dozen sitting on a lot, that you have NO room to barter right?
you want a better price? then you want this factory up and running ASAP
"why Priuses are not built in US?"
if not for the great deal made with China, they would have been. in fact the Tesla factory AND Camry factory were the two top contenders. but the Chinese Government made Toyota a deal they could not refuse.
apparently not all of us are aware of the global shortages of Leafs. i guess we need to pay attention to our Midwest members when they talk about their dashboard.
right now there is an estimate worldwide demand of 100,000+ units a years. Nissan's current capacity is 50,000. many here complain about price. we do know that until there is a dozen sitting on a lot, that you have NO room to barter right?
you want a better price? then you want this factory up and running ASAP
"why Priuses are not built in US?"
if not for the great deal made with China, they would have been. in fact the Tesla factory AND Camry factory were the two top contenders. but the Chinese Government made Toyota a deal they could not refuse.
garsh
Well-known member
You misunderstand. I specifically would NOT do that. But if I only had one car, I would make sure it's something that could take me on those long trips. But since the wife & I both need vehicles anyhow, I only need one of those to be capable of long trips. We have too many relatives that live 1-2 hours away who we visit several times a year.Smidge204 said:
Only because I think they'll end up selling in similar numbers, because they are both "secondary vehicles". When Nissan comes out with an electric car with a 300 mile range, then I think a much more sizable chunk of the population will consider getting one as an "only" or "primary" vehicle.
dgpcolorado
Well-known member
Like many folks here, my LEAF is my primary vehicle: the one that gets the most use and miles, by a wide margin. My ICE car is my secondary or backup vehicle.garsh said:
I realize that may not be the mindset of the general public when considering the current generation of EVs but that is a problem of education, not the idea of a LEAF as a "primary" car being wrong.
I agree that the LEAF isn't really suitable as an only car, save for those willing to take the extra hassle to make it work. But the majority of households in this country have two or more cars, so that's a lot of of market potential. Even for a short-range EV.
dgpcolorado
Well-known member
According to a Nissan rep I spoke with in September, the plan for the Smyrna plant was to produce 150,000 LEAFs a year and export 75,000. Whether that's still the case, I don't know.downeykp said:
I have my doubts as to whether Nissan can sell 75,000 LEAFs a year here unless they do a really good marketing/education campaign or gas prices get really high.
