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There is no required maintenance on a Tesla during the warranty period. There is zero cost to owners. There are some suggested items like Nissan has that are mandatory but Tesla does not require them and they do not impact your warranty like they can with Nissan. In addition if you have an issue they just take care of it even if it was "related to maintenance" I've had this done and they just do what is needed. This is just a clear misunderstanding by people who do not own a Tesla or owners that don't know how to read or ask questions. In fact the required service by Nissan is much higher than Tesla's zero figure. The majority of things I see here about the Model 3 and S are simply false or speculation. To this point in time, IMO Tesla service exceeds anything I have ever experienced anywhere and they stand behind their products, good luck getting that type of service at Nissan or elsewhere. Not to mention you don't have to hear clueless double talk from service advisors.
 
I'm still a little perplexed by that table then, aren't these services things Tesla recommends? Why would they recommend things that aren't needed?
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
It would appear from that chart the annual cost of those maintenance services ranges anywhere from $475 to $975 annually. Are these "optional" things? It doesn't sound like they are no-cost services unless you buy the maintenance plan(s), which of course means they are not no-cost.

So I think anyone would agree that most of those items are "optional" or "as needed" and very doable by either the end user (i.e. key fob battery replacement) or an independent mechanic (tire rotations and alignments) for FAR less than $475. The only possible truly costly item that may need to be done by Tesla is the drivetrain fluid service, whatever that is (odd that it's only a year 1 item).

I'd like to point out that Nissan is kind of the same. They "require" a brake fluid flush at least every 2 years which is over $100 (although you may be able to get it for less if you combine with another service, since basically the charge is one hour's worth of labor). They also "recommend" a cabin air filter replacement that could also cost you an hour's worth of labor if done standalone. But you can buy a replacement air filter yourself on Amazon and change it out with 45 minutes of your own time if you are so inclined (they certainly didn't make it easy though!)

I think the original point was that EVs in general (including Tesla AND Nissan) save maintenance costs. To claim Tesla's require $900 annually in service is a bit of stretching the truth. Claiming $0 is also stretching the truth. I think the general consensus would be that both are cheaper than ICE vehicles, and that the Tesla is going to average being slightly more than the Nissan.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
I'm still a little perplexed by that table then, aren't these services things Tesla recommends? Why would they recommend things that aren't needed?

Well they "recommend" that you change your smoke alarm batteries every 6 months. In fact my experience is that they last years before the batteries wear out.
 
About the only things I see that you avoid with an EV are engine oil and filter changes, fuel and air filters. I guess with a Tesla you also avoid the 12V battery. Spark plugs nearly last the life of the car these days. Everything else from wear items like tires, suspension bushings, brake fluid etc to stuff that can break like a power window motor all seem pretty much the same.

What will be interesting to see is how EVs fare at say the 12 year mark, when ICE cars seems to start leaking fluids from every seal and the labor to replace them all isn't worth the investment on an old car.

Now back to the Model 3 :D
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
I'm still a little perplexed by that table then, aren't these services things Tesla recommends? Why would they recommend things that aren't needed?

Needed and recommended are not the same. Look at what Nissan recommends on the LEAF let alone is in the maintenance schedule. What EV needs coolant changed even before 4 years? Even brake fluid changes based on some schedules are nonsense. Some MFG recommend you check your tire pressure weekly, do you?
 
EVDRIVER said:
Some MFG recommend you check your tire pressure weekly, do you?

I check my tire pressure EVERY time I go to the filling station.

Well, the only time I go to the filling station is to fill my tires with air...but still!!! :lol:
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
About the only things I see that you avoid with an EV are engine oil and filter changes, fuel and air filters. I guess with a Tesla you also avoid the 12V battery.
The S and X have a 12V battery.
 
jlv said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
About the only things I see that you avoid with an EV are engine oil and filter changes, fuel and air filters. I guess with a Tesla you also avoid the 12V battery.
The S and X have a 12V battery.
Shows what I know. I thought they relied solely on the DC-DC converter, unlike LEAF and Bolt.

Just for laughs I looked up the recommended (required?) maintenance for Nissan ICEmobiles:

Oil/filter change every 6 months
Cabin air filter every 18 months
Brake fluid every 24 months
Engine air filter every 36 months
Spark plugs at 126 months

I don't see why changing the brake fluid every 24 months would be any more or less advisable on an EV than on an ICE, and the necessity of changing the cabin air filter is certainly something where you can skimp. Really all you're saving on the EV is the oil changes and a few air filters; that's rounding error in terms of ownership costs.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
I don't see why changing the brake fluid every 24 months would be any more or less advisable on an EV than on an ICE, and the necessity of changing the cabin air filter is certainly something where you can skimp. Really all you're saving on the EV is the oil changes and a few air filters; that's rounding error in terms of ownership costs.

Well oil changes and also you should need to replace brake pads a lot less often. It can add up if you drive a lot of miles, but yes, not a huge factor.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
jlv said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
About the only things I see that you avoid with an EV are engine oil and filter changes, fuel and air filters. I guess with a Tesla you also avoid the 12V battery.
The S and X have a 12V battery.
Shows what I know. I thought they relied solely on the DC-DC converter, unlike LEAF and Bolt.

Just for laughs I looked up the recommended (required?) maintenance for Nissan ICEmobiles:

Oil/filter change every 6 months
Cabin air filter every 18 months
Brake fluid every 24 months
Engine air filter every 36 months
Spark plugs at 126 months

I don't see why changing the brake fluid every 24 months would be any more or less advisable on an EV than on an ICE, and the necessity of changing the cabin air filter is certainly something where you can skimp. Really all you're saving on the EV is the oil changes and a few air filters; that's rounding error in terms of ownership costs.


I believe they charge more to do brake fluid on the LEAF making it sound special. Regardless I never changed the brake fluid on my Tacoma and after 10 years I had it flushed and I live in a humid environment, they guy said it looked new and wondered why I wanted it flushed. Not saying that is advisable but coolant on an EV is not subjected to the same temp swings as it is on an EV and should not need flushing for a long time, same with brake fluid. Now let's get back to talking about how bad and late the model 3 will be...
 
EVDRIVER said:
Now let's get back to talking about how bad and late the model 3 will be...
Hear! Hear!
Almost feels like a big part of MNL's ongoing existence is to talk about "what's next", as the whole EV technology movement progresses at a snail's pace. Had it been like smartphones we'd be talking about picking up the latest EV for a couple hundred bucks on Amazon with 900 mile range and 15 second recharge time. Self driving of course.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
jlv said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
About the only things I see that you avoid with an EV are engine oil and filter changes, fuel and air filters. I guess with a Tesla you also avoid the 12V battery.
The S and X have a 12V battery.
Shows what I know. I thought they relied solely on the DC-DC converter, unlike LEAF and Bolt. ....
What? What production electric cars do NOT have a 12v battery? I thought you needed it to start the computers and open the contacts to the high voltage battery for *safety* reason.


Message displayed before blue faded warning (vs white on DIC in X/S) to put more tension on the steering wheeling showing you are "hands on"

First Extended Look At Tesla Model 3 On Autopilot – Video
https://insideevs.com/first-extended-look-tesla-model-3-autopilot-video/
 
The Ionic uses a lithium 12 volt sub-battery that is installed with the rest of the pack, and can be recharged from it either automatically or at will. Or at least the early version did...
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
About the only things I see that you avoid with an EV are engine oil and filter changes, fuel and air filters.

And:

Transmission Fluid
Starter
Alternator
Radiator Fluid
Radiator
Spark Plugs
Fuel Pump
Fuel Injector
Fuel Filter
Fuel Tank
Fuel Cleaning
belts/chains
fans
A variety of gaskets, seals and hoses
A variety of engine monitoring sensors

Over the life of a car all of these things will result in maintenance cost. I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple of things too.
 
On my "$900" comment.
I advised him NOT to do it.
He was concerned it would invalidate his warranty. I told him, not likely. I do not know what he did since he did not update or mention it further, but if I had to guess, I say he either did it or paid for some crazy service plan.

Enough of that.

Someone said "It wouldn't affect the warranty like it would with a LEAF"

what maintenance item are we talking about?
 
Just when I thought I was out they pull me back in!

Most of the things on that list aren't an issue on an ICE until the car is much older, when many people with means will have already moved on to a different vehicle. If you want to talk about things that can just plain break or wear out like a starter EVs have things that can fail too; I don't think there's nearly enough data to support conclusions there. Do you really want to take the bet that replacing a starter on an 11 year old Altima is going to be costlier than replacing a failed OBC on an eight year old LEAF or Tesla? Also some of the things on your list have counterparts on EVs, eg you still have a transaxle (without the trans) that may need a fluid service.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Just when I thought I was out they pull me back in!

Most of the things on that list aren't an issue on an ICE until the car is much older, when many people with means will have already moved on to a different vehicle. If you want to talk about things that can just plain break or wear out like a starter EVs have things that can fail too; I don't think there's nearly enough data to support conclusions there. Do you really want to take the bet that replacing a starter on an 11 year old Altima is going to be costlier than replacing a failed OBC on an eight year old LEAF or Tesla? Also some of the things on your list have counterparts on EVs, eg you still have a transaxle (without the trans) that may need a fluid service.

I disagree with the "Most" comment. Half or more of the items on that list apply within the first 60,000 miles. The remaining will likely be an issue between 100-150K miles (except the fuel tank). Depends on the car of course. The average person owns a car for 8 years. The average miles driven per year is around 13,000 - 15,000.

You're right that there are some maintenance costs for EVs that we simply don't know about yet. The big one that we do know is the cost of a new battery, should you choose to get one. Anything else, like a failed On Board Charger, is purely speculation.

For an ICE car "Most" of the maintenance is related to the engine. An EV replaces the engine with what is basically a "run to failure" component.
 
webb14leafs said:
I disagree with the "Most" comment. Half or more of the items on that list apply within the first 60,000 miles.
Maintenance and component/part failures are two different things.

None of the items on your list are scheduled maintenance items for a Nissan within the first 100k miles
Transmission Fluid
Starter
Alternator
Radiator Fluid
Radiator
Spark Plugs
Fuel Pump
Fuel Injector
Fuel Filter
Fuel Tank
Fuel Cleaning
belts/chains
fans
A variety of gaskets, seals and hoses
A variety of engine monitoring sensors

Sure any of those items can fail, but there is anecdotal commentary suggesting that none of those are likely to be anywhere near as painful as some esoteric thing failing on an EV.

Now back to the Model 3 :)
 
webb14leafs said:
You're right that there are some maintenance costs for EVs that we simply don't know about yet.
I will say this (and attempt to bring the discussion back on topic)...my first LEAF had to have its reduction gear assembly replaced. I had been (and continue to) tout that EVs are far cheaper vehicles to maintain and repair and the savings do add up (even if only marginally in the case of an expensive Model S or X). Between the almost complete lack of regular maintenance items and the fact that the EV drivetrain is far simpler than an ICE, it should be quite a bit cheaper to own an EV.

But wow, I was quite disappointed at my experience with the Nissan. For a few reasons. First, supposedly EVs don't have a transmission. Well technically true, but it does have this reduction gear, and boy was it expensive! It was a $2600 repair! We were able to get my son's ICE transmission rebuilt for less than half that amount. Second, not only did I feel the part died early (technically I was BARELY out of warranty--stupid me I didn't bring the car in until just after 60K miles because I was so focused on potentially losing my 4th bar and I didn't want the car to just sit in a parking lot for 2 weeks in the summer), but after posting about this here and on Facebook, and the fact that Nissan knew exactly what the problem was based on just my description, I infer that this is actually a fairly common problem!

Now fortunately Nissan did offer me out of warranty assistance so I didn't have to pay the $2600 myself (or at least not all of it). And I am willing to posit that perhaps this was due to the fact that it was a first generation LEAF and maybe parts quality was not yet mature.

However, to bring it back on topic, let's not fall into the trap of thinking that the Model 3 won't be in the same boat. Most of us that have reservations and will take delivery in the first year are going to be buying a car that almost certainly will have more issues than say either a 2023 Model 3 or a more established ICE vehicle today. If part of your justification for buying the Model 3 (or by extension, any Tesla) is that it's going to be far cheaper to maintain & repair, let's dispel that right away. While the drivetrain may be simpler, it's also "newer" and failures will be more likely to occur. And if/when they do occur, they will likely be quite expensive due to their relative rarity and lack of a good aftermarket supply chain build up. I'm not saying the cars will be junk either. Any individual owner may have great luck and have nothing go wrong. Just if we look at the total population, I do think that initially the cost spent on maintenance & repair per capita will certainly not be zero, and in fact may not even be all that competitive with reliable ICE vehicles.
 
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