2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

[adric22]

We traded in our degraded 2011 about 6 months ago for a 2013. And the battery range has been fantastic. But I've been wondering what to expect with the 2013 models. Technically they've been on the road now for around 2 years. Have there been any reports of battery degradation on these models? I realize the battery was changed for 2013 and I also realize it was changed again for the 2015 model. And while the hopes are high for the lizard battery, I'm curious if anything is yet known about the reliability of the 2013/2014 battery. Has anyone lost any capacity bars yet?

 

[epirali]

We traded in our degraded 2011 about 6 months ago for a 2013. And the battery range has been fantastic. But I've been wondering what to expect with the 2013 models. Technically they've been on the road now for around 2 years. Have there been any reports of battery degradation on these models? I realize the battery was changed for 2013 and I also realize it was changed again for the 2015 model. And while the hopes are high for the lizard battery, I'm curious if anything is yet known about the reliability of the 2013/2014 battery. Has anyone lost any capacity bars yet?

I am not a good data point for you (I am in Maryland where we do have hot days in the summer, but nothing crazy). After 15,000 miles and 1 year I my health is down to 96-97% from 101% (63 AHR). I do a mix of charging 80 and 100% (probably 20% of the time to 100%), usual daily commute is from 80%-50% with two charges at L2 per day. Never done a QC yet (not chargers near me) and I tend to leave the car around 40-50% charge when not in use (or at waiting for charging timer to go to 80% in the morning).

 

[dgpcolorado]

We traded in our degraded 2011 about 6 months ago for a 2013. And the battery range has been fantastic. But I've been wondering what to expect with the 2013 models. Technically they've been on the road now for around 2 years. Have there been any reports of battery degradation on these models? I realize the battery was changed for 2013 and I also realize it was changed again for the 2015 model. And while the hopes are high for the lizard battery, I'm curious if anything is yet known about the reliability of the 2013/2014 battery. Has anyone lost any capacity bars yet?

When I asked the latter question last month I was told that LEAFfan had lost his first bar in his 2013. And there was another report of a 2013 bar loss:

Are 2013 and 2014 Leafs beta testers for the Lizard battery?

 

[LeftieBiker]

I don't have an app to check health, but at about 8200 miles my 2013 started charging to 79% instead of 80%. That was over six months ago. At 9600 miles the situation is the same - 12 capacity bars but charging to 79%. I am sure that the first Summer I had the car, when it reached or surpassed 90F 12 times, is the culprit.

 

[Graffi]

I don't have an app to check health, but at about 8200 miles my 2013 started charging to 79% instead of 80%. That was over six months ago. At 9600 miles the situation is the same - 12 capacity bars but charging to 79%. I am sure that the first Summer I had the car, when it reached or surpassed 90F 12 times, is the culprit.

Our MY2013 has ALWAYS charged to 79%, so I do not see this as an issue. We are at just over One year and 16,000 miles and the total Gids remains about the same as when new.

 

[cgaydos]

We traded in our degraded 2011 about 6 months ago for a 2013. And the battery range has been fantastic. But I've been wondering what to expect with the 2013 models. Technically they've been on the road now for around 2 years. Have there been any reports of battery degradation on these models? I realize the battery was changed for 2013 and I also realize it was changed again for the 2015 model. And while the hopes are high for the lizard battery, I'm curious if anything is yet known about the reliability of the 2013/2014 battery. Has anyone lost any capacity bars yet?

When I asked the latter question last month I was told that LEAFfan had lost his first bar in his 2013. And there was another report of a 2013 bar loss:

Are 2013 and 2014 Leafs beta testers for the Lizard battery?

Two reports of model year 2013s losing one bar in October, 2014. Let's contrast that with October 2012. From the wiki:

Even though there have been 112 documented cases of battery capacity loss of one or more bars (as of 10/13/2012), only 58 capacity loss cases have been reported to Nissan to our knowledge. The geographic breakdown of these cases is: Arizona - 53, Texas - 23, California - 31, Oklahoma - 1, Hong Kong - 1, Spain - 1, Unknown - 2. The breakdown by number of capacity bars lost is: one bar - 72, two bars - 29, three bars - 9, four bars - 2.

I'd say that either there was a significant change in the 2013 Model Year LEAFs (possibly only in high temperature areas) or for reasons unknown people with 2013s just aren't mentioning the loss of capacity bars here or on other forums.

 

[adric22]

[
I'd say that either there was a significant change in the 2013 Model Year LEAFs (possibly only in high temperature areas) or for reasons unknown people with 2013s just aren't mentioning the loss of capacity bars here or on other forums.

There should be a lot more 2013/2014 Leafs on the road than 2011/2012 considering the monthly sales volumes we've been seeing since the 2013 came on the market. If anyone has the exact breakdown, that would be interesting to see. So I would think of the 2013 battery was no more durable than the 2011/2012, there should be more cases of capacity loss. I am hoping (crossing my fingers) that the 2013 battery is overall better. I'm hoping that because the residual on our 2013 isn't bad so I might consider a purchase at the end of the lease if the capacity is holding up.

 

[GRA]

[
I'd say that either there was a significant change in the 2013 Model Year LEAFs (possibly only in high temperature areas) or for reasons unknown people with 2013s just aren't mentioning the loss of capacity bars here or on other forums.

There should be a lot more 2013/2014 Leafs on the road than 2011/2012 considering the monthly sales volumes we've been seeing since the 2013 came on the market. If anyone has the exact breakdown, that would be interesting to see. So I would think of the 2013 battery was no more durable than the 2011/2012, there should be more cases of capacity loss. I am hoping (crossing my fingers) that the 2013 battery is overall better. I'm hoping that because the residual on our 2013 isn't bad so I might consider a purchase at the end of the lease if the capacity is holding up.

You're assuming that the people who bought/leased 2013s rather than a previous MY are as technically involved as the earliest adopters were, and flock to forums such as this one at the same rate as the 2011/2012 people did. I don't think anyone has compiled the data that would tell us if that's the case, and until someone does, drawing any conclusions about 2013 vs. 2011/2012 degradation based solely on the # of reports here doesn't strike me as being very useful.

 

[cgaydos]

[
I'd say that either there was a significant change in the 2013 Model Year LEAFs (possibly only in high temperature areas) or for reasons unknown people with 2013s just aren't mentioning the loss of capacity bars here or on other forums.

There should be a lot more 2013/2014 Leafs on the road than 2011/2012 considering the monthly sales volumes we've been seeing since the 2013 came on the market. If anyone has the exact breakdown, that would be interesting to see. So I would think of the 2013 battery was no more durable than the 2011/2012, there should be more cases of capacity loss. I am hoping (crossing my fingers) that the 2013 battery is overall better. I'm hoping that because the residual on our 2013 isn't bad so I might consider a purchase at the end of the lease if the capacity is holding up.

You're assuming that the people who bought/leased 2013s rather than a previous MY are as technically involved as the earliest adopters were, and flock to forums such as this one at the same rate as the 2011/2012 people did. I don't think anyone has compiled the data that would tell us if that's the case, and until someone does, drawing any conclusions about 2013 vs. 2011/2012 degradation based solely on the # of reports here doesn't strike me as being very useful.

I agree we need more data before drawing conclusions - hence my wording above - but I think the evidence that we have strongly suggests the battery is better. Remember, during 2013 there were a lot of posts here from new 2013 buyers/leasors regarding the problem with the heater in those early 2013s. So we know that in 2013 new LEAFers did seek out this forum - and post - when they had a serious problem. That suggests that they would have posted if they had lost 2, 3, or 4 capacity bars as people were doing with the 2011s.

I just wish Nissan would provide full disclosure about what they know.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Our MY2013 has ALWAYS charged to 79%, so I do not see this as an issue. We are at just over One year and 16,000 miles and the total Gids remains about the same as when new.

I'd love to be reassured by that, but have you compared your GID count with others? Your car may have been 'pre-degraded' on the dealer's lot.

 

[jlv]

My 2013 has a build date of 12/13 (*). I leased it on 4/14, almost exactly 6 months (and 4500mi) ago. Just this last Friday I had the best GIDs reading ever: 279. (thus, I'm still at 12 bars) I regularly charge to 100% (via L2 @ 6.6kWh), 5 days a week. I've done a total of 14 QCs, also.

(*) I would have thought they'd have been building 2014s by 12/13, but apparently not.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Here's hoping that my car stays at 12 bars, then!

 

[Graffi]

Our MY2013 has ALWAYS charged to 79%, so I do not see this as an issue. We are at just over One year and 16,000 miles and the total Gids remains about the same as when new.

I'd love to be reassured by that, but have you compared your GID count with others? Your car may have been 'pre-degraded' on the dealer's lot.

Our Leaf arrived on the dealer lot early morning 9/6/13, fresh from factory with Aug 2013 Mfg date. We drove it away from the lot early afternoon. We had ordered it in July so was a long wait. We got our Leaf DD in December 2013. It has been monitored constantly since then. It is my understanding that some of the MY2013 Leafs showed around 260 gids while others showed 284 at 100%. At 80% charge setting the dash always shows 79%, and 209 gids. If there is any reduction in 16,000 miles it is only a couple of gids. We charge to 100% about once per week to keep the pack balanced.

Hope this helps.

 

[stjohnh]

AFAIK nearly all data are anecdotal. The most compelling anecdote that I have read on this forum occurred about 6 months ago. A poster from the SF East bay area (much warmer than SF, though not as hot as Texas or Arizona). A member of this forum who works at a large East Bay firm that maintains an email list of electric cars for scheduling purposes of the limited charging stations at work, sent a query to the list members. He asked for degradation reports from people who had purchased late MY2012 Leafs and early MY2013 Leafs. The cars were only a few months apart in age. Several list members reported significant degradation of their 2012 Leafs, none of the 2013 owners reported any degradation. I have searched for that post on this forum, but can't find it.

We have 2 Leafs, both made May 2013. One has 15k miles, the other 12k miles. There is no degradation as measured by LeafSpy capacity or GIDS. I frequently drive mine below VLBW and mostly charge to 100%. I haven't done any recent formal range tests, but I still have no problem driving from Palo Alto, over the Santa Cruz mountains-hiway 17 to Santa Cruz and back on one charge. 84 miles. Palo Alto weather is warmer than San Francisco, but cooler than the East Bay.

This information, along with the remarkable lack of 2013 owners reporting bar loss, lead me to believe that the 2013 Leafs do indeed have more heat tolerant batteries than the 2011 and 2012 Leafs.

I actually think they may have the Lizard battery in them, but Nissan didn't announce that fact, due the the bad publicity of the battery problem of earlier Leafs. In other words, the 2013 and 2014 owners are the beta testers of the Lizard battery.

 

[DanCar]

Here is the post: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=17043&start=10#p372239" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I just started a new poll here:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/+DanielCardenas/posts/6NQ2kh45RXf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[LeftieBiker]

The thing about my car is it charged to 80% for more than a year, then started stopping at 79%. That still sounds to me like degradation.

 

[jlv]

I'd guess it's possibly a rounding error in the software.

 

[Slow1]

The thing about my car is it charged to 80% for more than a year, then started stopping at 79%. That still sounds to me like degradation.

I'm not sure that the endpoint when you charge to 80% means a whole lot in terms of battery degradation. I believe that the car will be trying to charge to 80% of your capacity, whatever that may be. I.e. if you had 20kWh of capacity, it would charge about 16kWh, if your capacity dropped to 10kWh then setting to 80% charge would get you about 8kWh.

Your change is noteworthy, but I don't know that it really tells you anything about total capacity.

 

[michapok]

My 2013 (build date 5/13, delivery 7/13) has 12k miles and 2-3% degradation compared to a year ago. I've been using LeafSpy since Sept of last year and track my Ahr at least twice a month. I live 90 miles north of NYC and keep it garaged at night (charge to 80% most days) so the battery has been relatively pampered.

FWIW I've got one of the 'low Ahr' leafs where my new pack was somewhere between 60-61 Ahr and now it's about 58-59 Ahr.

 

[BrockWI]

I also have a 2013. We picked it up in March of 14, it started at 67.36 AH and 109.76 HX (didn't record GID's then) and at 2000 miles we were at 63.68 AH, 97.74 HX and 277 GID. Now at 6654 miles we are at 59.55 AH, 90.94 HX and 258 GID. Seems to be dropping fast... It is a pretty consistent drop over time, but seems to be slowing a bit.

We charge to 80% about 13 out of 14 days. Being in Green Bay, WI, it's not exactly warm, I have never seen the battery above 5 bars and is kept in an attached insulated garage.