2023 dead at the airport.

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Umm...no.
It would be nice to report back with actual findings since it's in the shop. This is either a simple 12v battery failure...or something much more serious.
The fact that the car unlocked was able to be shifted into neutral and pushed out of the stall to be towed confirms the 12 volt was not discharged. None of those are possible with a discharged 12 volt.
IT was the traction battery that was shown to be discharged.
 
It is possible because I've seen it myself. The 12V battery had enough power to turn on cabin lights and the dash, park or neutral mode, but not enough to engage the main battery contactors. Buried in this forum was a topic about someone who had the same issue. They closed the doors, waited for the Leaf to enter deep sleep to make sure everything was off and used the climate control signal to start the Leaf. Then got back inside and switched it to ready mode since the DC-DC was now running. Of course these are rare circumstances where the 12V can't switch the traction battery on but the lights and dash still work.
 
The HVAC uses the same contactor in the battery to turn on. BUT that is all irrelevant because it was the TRACTION battery that was showing dead, not anything to do with the 12 volt stuff. THAT is the point the idiot lights on the dash and the park motor, interior lights etc are all 12 volt, but the dash was showing no charge in the traction battery.
If the 12 volt can pull in the contactor in the battery, it gets HV sent to the PDM and from there it goes to either the motor or the HVAC HV section. There was no indication that the contactor couldn't pull in, only that there was not enough charge on the traction battery.
There are not two paths from the battery box to the PDM, only one and it is energized by the contactor inside the battery box.
 
I agree, something drained the traction battery. No idea what and would like to know when the shop (hopefully) figures it out instead of a shoulder shrug from Nissan. 🤣
 
Yeah I've looked it up in the mean time and, well, lots of cheap unreliable garbage and also lots of expensive pro equipment...

The most reliable ones I could find amongst cheaper ones were resistive 100A load testers. That's fine for big ICE car batteries but is it not a bit much for the LEAF's?
 
JUST to clear up some mis-information:
LOOK AT THE SERVICE MANUAL I attached in post #31, it shows when the 12 volt is charged, and it is when plugged into the EVSE, when it is plugged into a DCFC, when the climate timer is activated, and under other conditions, including being left turned off for a long period of time
Folks, this is straight from the NISSAN repair manual. so if you "Know it to be otherwise" I would request that you provide documentation for that claim. I have for mine.
As other have stated, when they left their car un-used for a week or more, they saw no reduction in the SOC for the traction battery.
The above manual screen-shot is from the 2015 Nissan service manual.
Something cause the O/P problem, and it isn't normal operation of the car or normal parking for a week that caused it. I and am sure he would like to get to the bottom of it.
The Dealer service writer was wrong to say "just charge it". Something caused the problem and it could be a mistake made by the owner, or it could be another fault. I believe what the owner said, so am looking for another source for the problem.
Finding a battery discharged, be it the 12 volt or the traction battery is a SYMPTOM not the source of the problem. you must dig deeper to get to the SOURCE of the problem. A battery can fail and be both the symptom and source, but it doesn't mean it is 100% of the time, until proven to be, it should be treated as a symptom.
I and I'm sure most here want to solve the problem once and for all, and not "try" stuff esp if that trying involves buying stuff that isn't proven to be bad.
As we have said week 12 volt battery. the LEAF only feeds Voltage to the 12 volt at the start of the traction pack charge cycle . So as we have said your 12 volt will slowly die if you leave it for a week or so without a trickle charge attached. If you leave it plugged in to an EVSE dock it will die sooner.. The Leaf only tries to top off the 12 volt at the start of the charge cycle.. This is because when your driving with the leaf the traction pack sends 14.5 volts to the 12 volt to keep it topped off while in operation. So your 12 volt should be full when you park your leaf. But this type of chargeing is hard on the 12volt and will cause them to die every 3 years like clock work. Replace your 12 volt battery and you will be good to go for another 3 years.
 
Last edited:
As we have said week 12 volt battery. the LEAF only feeds Voltage to the 12 volt at the start of the traction pack charge cycle . So as we have said your 12 volt will slowly die if you leave it for a week or so without a trickle charge attached. If you leave it plugged in to an EVSE dock it will die sooner.. The Leaf only tries to top off the 12 volt at the start of the charge cycle.. This is because when your driving with the leaf the traction pack sends 14.5 volts to the 12 volt to keep it topped off while in operation. So your 12 volt should be full when you park your leaf. But this type of chargeing is hard on the 12volt and will cause them to die every 3 years like clock work. Replace your 12 volt battery and you will be good to go for another 3 years.
That is not what the manual says, if it doesn't see an use cycle it chargers for 4 min every 24 hrs, re-set and waits another 24 hrs. That is what is in the manual.
I have provided documentation to back up what I am saying from the Nissan 2015 service manual, You have provided no documentation to back your claim, I believe Nissan, they built the thing!
 
Last edited:
Just got back from a weeklong trip and our 2023 leaf is dead at the airport. car turns on and says the battery is at 0% and needs to be charged. we had 100% battery before going to the airport and in the 60s when parked. turned it off and and retrieved my baggage and then went back and unlocked to grab a waterbottle. took a video to show where my car was in the parking lot that shows it off. temperatures were around freezing all week.
any ideas on how this would happen?
Obviously, something was draining the main battery, but the small 'house unit' needed to light up the dash and use the main power pack did not die! So what took out that 60%? My first question could be best. Maybe the main battery is ok, but the circuit from the control system to battery is somehow unable to ask because the communication was hit by ice?

By now, a tow truck and operator may have moved the car to a warm garage. If my theoretical question is a good guess, a warm environment. may restore the the tie to energy; however, I tend to hope not! Why? To regain trust is easier when the primary cause is found and fixed. It is hard to think you could park an leave something bigger than an interior LED light and run out all power.

I look forward to your response to [email protected]. Regards, Dick
 
Obviously, something was draining the main battery, but the small 'house unit' needed to light up the dash and use the main power pack did not die! So what took out that 60%? My first question could be best. Maybe the main battery is ok, but the circuit from the control system to battery is somehow unable to ask because the communication was hit by ice?

By now, a tow truck and operator may have moved the car to a warm garage. If my theoretical question is a good guess, a warm environment. may restore the the tie to energy; however, I tend to hope not! Why? To regain trust is easier when the primary cause is found and fixed. It is hard to think you could park an leave something bigger than an interior LED light and run out all power.

I look forward to your response to [email protected]. Regards, Dick
 
12v batteries die on an EV just like they do on an ICE car...
he means, open the hood, there is a 12v battery near the drivers headlight. Jumpstart it three times. Go to a parts store get a high quality 12v battery. The approximate size and make sure you get the + and - posts right.

After I replaced my dead battery after 6 years. I had to restart the car 3 times before it acted right. and that was 2 years ago.

The leaf has "vampires" and because there is no starter, the factory puts in a really crappy battery. If you want this to NEVER happen get a "glas matt" optima 12v battery or similar.

Dont forget to clean the terminals and battery area with baking soda and water (make a paste)
 
Just got back from a weeklong trip and our 2023 leaf is dead at the airport. car turns on and says the battery is at 0% and needs to be charged. we had 100% battery before going to the airport and in the 60s when parked. turned it off and and retrieved my baggage and then went back and unlocked to grab a waterbottle. took a video to show where my car was in the parking lot that shows it off. temperatures were around freezing all week.
any ideas on how this would happen?
TLDNR: assumes the car was left outside with no power at all. In you know, like an airport parking lot.

A week in sub freezing temps not plugged in. This isn’t just your fault it’s actually expected. Your battery heater ran out the battery trying to keep the cells from freezing. Lithium batteries have to remain above freezing so they have heaters. That slush stuff they’re filled with, much like a lead acid battery, can’t be allowed to freeze. Unlike a lead acid battery though they’re NOT acid. There are two types I know of: heat tapes and heat pumps. Pumps are more efficient than tape. A tape heater can eat 1/3rd of your battery on a really cold night. I think you have a heat pump (which is better) if you’re lucky only the 12v battery is hosed. Those are relatively cheap. If you fragged the big one though it will not recharge again. Your car now has a non-rechargable battery. You really just left the thing in an outside parking lot in the winter for a week?! This is as bad as the people who think they can get away with having no charger at all and just hitting superchargers occasionally. That can work if there’s never any cold weather. California, Hawaii, Florida, etc.. Apparently it works as far north as Chicago most of the time. Where I live? No. Get the thing on a flatbed, get it to a heated garage with a charger, (even just a light socket will work. Your car should have come with a charger that does level1) and pray. If you’ve got heat tape your main battery is probably done for. It died a few days after you left it alone outside in winter weather. If you’ve got a heat pump there’s a decent chance. It might have lasted long enough. Another day and it would be dead. Also your 12v battery may be fried too. That will also need charging/replacement. Gas engines have a nearly unique quality. They’re nearly immune to terrestrial levels of cold because gasoline freezes at some ungodly low temperature. Diesel and lithium slurry? Not so much. Even gas cars can have block heaters because if it gets cold enough the oil turns solid and the metal the block is made of shrinks. The darn things can crack

TLDNR: an example of sorts
I grew up with 70’s and 80’s era Volkswagen diesels. Back then there were 2 types of diesel #1 and #2. #2 had less energy in it (so fuel economy was worse) and it was more expensive, BUT it gelled at a much lower temperature. We lived in NorthDakota so we used #2 in the winter and #1 the rest of the year. The gas stations usually took care of the change. One time though my dad bought gas in a place that didn’t and the fuel in the rabbit gelled on a very cold night. We had a garage but it was unheated. My dad took a kerosene powered room heater lit it up, and put it in the garage. Took 3 days to liquify the fuel.
After it was warm enough my dad drove the thing around for a while to empty the tank and got some real #2 in it after which it was fine. Only happened once. You may not be so lucky. If your lithiums froze the battery pack is toast.

In Minnesota you CAN’T just leave your car out forever. Next time leave your car on the charger and take a taxi to the airport. Doesn’t need much. Even a regular light socket will do it. If you can park somewhere where there is power available you can leave your car out overnight for a nearly infinite period. If you don’t, and it’s cold, there is a time limit though. You passed it or you didn’t. I’m not sure. If your car WAS plugged in it’s the 12v though. If your area ever gets snow for more than a day or two you probably need a charger.
My car has never seen a public charger and hopefully never will. Unless I try to take the thing cross country. They cost multiple times what power costs are in my area.
 
Last edited:
TLDNR: assumes the car was left outside with no power at all. In you know, like an airport parking lot.

A week in sub freezing temps not plugged in. This isn’t just your fault it’s actually expected. Your battery heater ran out the battery trying to keep the cells from freezing. Lithium batteries have to remain above freezing so they have heaters. That slush stuff they’re filled with, much like a lead acid battery, can’t be allowed to freeze. Unlike a lead acid battery though they’re NOT acid. There are two types I know of: heat tapes and heat pumps. Pumps are more efficient than tape. A tape heater can eat 1/3rd of your battery on a really cold night. I think you have a heat pump (which is better) if you’re lucky only the 12v battery is hosed. Those are relatively cheap. If you fragged the big one though it will not recharge again. Your car now has a non-rechargable battery. You really just left the thing in an outside parking lot in the winter for a week?! This is as bad as the people who think they can get away with having no charger at all and just hitting superchargers occasionally. That can work if there’s never any cold weather. California, Hawaii, Florida, etc.. Apparently it works as far north as Chicago most of the time. Where I live? No. Get the thing on a flatbed, get it to a heated garage with a charger, (even just a light socket will work. Your car should have come with a charger that does level1) and pray. If you’ve got heat tape your main battery is probably done for. It died a few days after you left it alone outside in winter weather. If you’ve got a heat pump there’s a decent chance. It might have lasted long enough. Another day and it would be dead. Also your 12v battery may be fried too. That will also need charging/replacement. Gas engines have a nearly unique quality. They’re nearly immune to terrestrial levels of cold because gasoline freezes at some ungodly low temperature. Diesel and lithium slurry? Not so much. Even gas cars can have block heaters because if it gets cold enough the oil turns solid and the metal the block is made of shrinks. The darn things can crack

TLDNR: an example of sorts
I grew up with 70’s and 80’s era Volkswagen diesels. Back then there were 2 types of diesel #1 and #2. #2 had less energy in it (so fuel economy was worse) and it was more expensive, BUT it gelled at a much lower temperature. We lived in NorthDakota so we used #2 in the winter and #1 the rest of the year. The gas stations usually took care of the change. One time though my dad bought gas in a place that didn’t and the fuel in the rabbit gelled on a very cold night. We had a garage but it was unheated. My dad took a kerosene powered room heater lit it up, and put it in the garage. Took 3 days to liquify the fuel.
After it was warm enough my dad drove the thing around for a while to empty the tank and got some real #2 in it after which it was fine. Only happened once. You may not be so lucky. If your lithiums froze the battery pack is toast.

In Minnesota you CAN’T just leave your car out forever. Next time leave your car on the charger and take a taxi to the airport. Doesn’t need much. Even a regular light socket will do it. If you can park somewhere where there is power available you can leave your car out overnight for a nearly infinite period. If you don’t, and it’s cold, there is a time limit though. You passed it or you didn’t. I’m not sure. If your car WAS plugged in it’s the 12v though. If your area ever gets snow for more than a day or two you probably need a charger.
My car has never seen a public charger and hopefully never will. Unless I try to take the thing cross country. They cost multiple times what power costs are in my area.
Nice long write up, but you missed a lot of key facts about both the situation and the Nissan Leaf.
1) the Nissan battery heater for the Li battery doesn't turn on until the Battery temp is near 0 deg
2) the outside temp at the airport when this happened was around 32 deg F according to the O.P
3) Leaf traction battery don't use a 3rd of the capacity running the battery heaters.
4) they don't loose there capacity in a week of sitting, Heck I have supercapcitors that will hold their charge longer than that.
5) the traction battery is disconnected when the car is off, no Vampire loads on the traction battery, other than a 4 min charge to the 12 volt every 24 hrs. and the battery heater if the battery temp drops below 0.
The service manual is a long hard read, but much better than making assumptions without looking at the facts. Last time I looked the service manual for 2015 and older could be downloaded for free from the Nico site, I would recommend even if you have a new model to get one and read it.
I know people (or hope anyway) have the best of intentions in helping. However, it doesn't help if the info you are giving is wrong. Like it or not, Nissan built the car and has the best info on it.
All cars sit for over a week at some point in their lives, whether at a dealers lot, the factory lot or when someone goes on vacation, it is expected "use" and not the cause of the traction battery going flat.
Hopefully we will hear back on what the dealer finds. I have a suspicion, but what I think should set a DTC. So far none has been reported. I can rule out things by what has been reported by the owner and what he was able to do with the car before it was towed to the dealer.
This isn't a game where you get a prize for being the 1st one with the right answer, it is someone with a problem that asked for help, guessing is not how you solve something like this. Resolving of the problem starts with a logic tree, with known info and ruling stuff in or out by what can be observed. That which can not be observed directly must be done with DTC and scanners that can look into what is happening or not happening.
Repairing modern equipment has got so much harder in recent years, I have been in the trade (recently retired) for over 50 years, the last 20 or so the pace of difficult to nail down problems has expanded exponentially. It is all too common (and a natural trait of humans) to try and equate back to something in the past. Unfortunately things have changed a lot since then.
I am very interested in what the dealer finds.
 
This isn't a game where you get a prize for being the 1st one with the right answer, it is someone with a problem that asked for help, guessing is not how you solve something like this.
I couldn't have said it better myself, this is why I avoid the FB Leaf Groups and Youtube Leaf Video Comments, other places because there is too much mis-information that makes my brain hurt. 😨
 
Back
Top