50% Success. What's So Tough About Charging on the Road?

[Graycenphil]

I'm very happy with my Leaf. We use it far more than we expected to and it drives great.

But I have had marginal success with commercial chargers. Overall, I'd estimate I have about a 50% success rate charging on the road. That is not very good for building confidence. Why is it so difficult to get these thiings working right? Imagine if half the time you went to a gas station you couldn't get gas? It would be like 1973 all over again.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

The Nissan/Sumitomo QCs at dealerships are poorly designed, with cooling air intake at ground level and exhaust fans that never shut down or slow down when demand is low. As a reult, the filters clog up and they overheat. Guy Bedeau, LEAF guy in Milford MA has it figured out, and can clean the five filters in 15 minutes. Ron Bouchard Nissan in Lancaster MA shuts off the main breaker switch, but doesn't lock it, so they both save vampire load and the filters stay cleaner. The QC starts right up. The other dealers are using outside maintenance vendors, so are less dependable. The ones with Eaton units seem OK so far, except they block or lock sometimes. I'm not sure what the Eaton at DeCormier's problem was. There have been some 20-25 kW non-dealer QC installs lately, and those models seem OK so far.

 

[TomT]

The Aerovironment EV-50 unit at TBWA\Chiat\Day in Culver city seems to be pretty bullet proof. It is built like a tank, has a good cooling scheme and even though it is heavily used, the only time it was ever out of service was when someone managed to break a pin in the charge connector...

 

[MikeD]

Do the Eaton QC units need periodic maintenance including have filters replaced or cleaned? There is one at a Murphy Express in Chattanooga that went down, but unfortunately it is unclear what its problem is and the manager (or her supervisor) seems to want to get rid of it even though it is in a very good location relative to I-75 and 153. (It may be TOO good, i.e. they often don't have enough space for all the ICE cars).

 

[MikeD]

Another issue that is relevant related to the original CHAdeMO (version 0.9) QCs is the confusing design of the plug with its lever in addition to its release button. The new version 1.0 removes the lever leaving only a button which should be easier to use and less likely to cause the plug to be damaged because a user has difficulty removing the plug. This may have been discussed at length elsewhere, but could anyone comment on whether the new plug design (the new 1.0 version may require extensive other changes) seems to be in common use yet?

 

[Nubo]

Another issue that is relevant related to the original CHAdeMO (version 0.9) QCs is the confusing design of the plug with its lever in addition to its release button. The new version 1.0 removes the lever leaving only a button which should be easier to use and less likely to cause the plug to be damaged because a user has difficulty removing the plug. This may have been discussed at length elsewhere, but could anyone comment on whether the new plug design (the new 1.0 version may require extensive other changes) seems to be in common use yet?

On my last trip (june/july), I noticed the BLINKs I used had the new plugs. So much more sensible.

 

[TimLee]

Do the Eaton QC units need periodic maintenance including have filters replaced or cleaned? There is one at a Murphy Express in Chattanooga that went down, but unfortunately it is unclear what its problem is and the manager (or her supervisor) seems to want to get rid of it even though it is in a very good location relative to I-75 and 153.

Not sure about the filters.
When it was working the wasps loved to build in the hot air exhaust area.
It does have fans. Pictures at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5349&hilit=eaton&start=20#p134782" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

What failed is $3,000 control board.
We need to contact CEO.
He was at the dedication ceremony.
Not sure whether the failed business model of no revenue stream or corporate support to fund it has been elevated.
The local manager has been very supportive.
But she gets negative evaluations for non functioning equipment but has no authorization to fund repair.

Mapco is putting in a lot of DCQC in Nashville, but they probably have support from Nissan.
That is what is needed at Murphy Express.
Some means to fund and support it.

 

[MikeD]

TimLee: IMHO an important issue about Eaton QCs is that they (based on their website product info) do not appear to have a CHAdeMO Version 1.0 QC available yet. I strongly suspect that this played a role in the current problem with the Chattanooga Murphy Express QC, which I believe involved the plug and its flawed Version 0.9 plug w/ lever design. I agree with most if not all of your last post, but I would like to add pressure needs to also be applied to Eaton concerning upgrading/certifying their QC design.

 

[finman100]

I can attest to some QC being unreliable. The Chargepoint one at Power Nissan in Salem, OR has an overheating problem during the day (it can and has been hot here! over 90 F plus). Same thermostat error everytime, same response when calling Chargepoint ("ok, I'll log that, never seen that before, sorry, can't do anything about it" blah, blah, blah). Service person, Eric, was a big help and reset the breaker back inside the service area. Said that always does the trick, and it did. Perfectly good, SHADED area to put this charger is 25 feet away, behind building, away from front parking spots, etc. But it was instead installed right out front in the sun, no shade, and using a good parking spot. Sheesh, i don't want better parking...i want RELIABLE, out of the way, and shaded charging. Growing pains...anyone have pics of early gas station locales from the '20s? i really feel EVs are like that.

PS New gun-style-with-just-a-button QC connectors on several chargers in this area and are SO much better than the lever/button versions!

Curt

 

[kieranmullen]

I came across the same issue but I have less personal issues with a free service. The other alternative is to pay for parking byt he capitol building and use their Level 3 right or do you know of another one? I am an Aeroviroment Member.

Finally those chargers cost a pretty penny to purchase AND install. They were probably able to get some marketing dollars to pay for it. When you think about it, if the equipment is used for marketing the Leaf. How much good would it be behind the building? How many people walking the lot are going to see that $15,000 charger?

I can attest to some QC being unreliable. The Chargepoint one at Power Nissan in Salem, OR has an overheating problem during the day (it can and has been hot here! over 90 F plus). Same thermostat error everytime, same response when calling Chargepoint ("ok, I'll log that, never seen that before, sorry, can't do anything about it" blah, blah, blah). Service person, Eric, was a big help and reset the breaker back inside the service area. Said that always does the trick, and it did. Perfectly good, SHADED area to put this charger is 25 feet away, behind building, away from front parking spots, etc. But it was instead installed right out front in the sun, no shade, and using a good parking spot. Sheesh, i don't want better parking...i want RELIABLE, out of the way, and shaded charging. Growing pains...anyone have pics of early gas station locales from the '20s? i really feel EVs are like that.

PS New gun-style-with-just-a-button QC connectors on several chargers in this area and are SO much better than the lever/button versions!

Curt

 

[kieranmullen]

Are these old units or are they built like this for the weather? The ones in Oregon and Washington look nothing like that. The have a clock light up top so you can also see how much is has charged
from far away.

The Aerovironment EV-50 unit at TBWA\Chiat\Day in Culver city seems to be pretty bullet proof. It is built like a tank, has a good cooling scheme and even though it is heavily used, the only time it was ever out of service was when someone managed to break a pin in the charge connector...

 

[cwerdna]

I can attest to some QC being unreliable. The Chargepoint one at Power Nissan in Salem, OR has an overheating problem during the day (it can and has been hot here! over 90 F plus).
...

So I took look at http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/4382" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Since it's one of http://nissanqc.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, we've been having overheating problems w/these units in the Bay Area starting awhile back. A persistent Bay Area Leaf was able to get a copy of "Nissan Fast Charger Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" from Aerovironment The FIVE air filters on it MUST be cleaned periodically otherwise they will hit "0x051E, Thermostat Error (Charger malfunction)".

Filename is DCQC Filter Cleaning and Maintenance.pdf. I can't upload it as PDFs aren't allowed and ZIPed, it's too big.

Those who are in the SF Bay Leafs FB group can get it from https://www.facebook.com/groups/BayLeafs/691792637545067/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (from the https://www.facebook.com/groups/BayLeafs/files/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; tab).

 

[finman100]

You know what's funny...the three small square filters at the base of this charger are chock full of mud and grass clippings. I mean blocked and choked, since it is very close to a grassy area that gets watered and mowed. And the service person told me that the Chargepoint person that has come out to "fix" things, changed some filters. I asked, 'you mean those at the base of the charger'. "no" he said, "it was somewhere inside the building at the connections". whatever that means. Really? electronic filters can be mistaken for ACTUAL air filters on the unit? C'mon, let's just admit that no one really knows anything around here (at that dealership). I didn't really say any of that, but surprise, surprise, a dealership has no clue. Sell me a Leaf oil change, too? Maybe some super duper platinum spark plugs while yer at it. It is pretty ridiculous.

I will mention the AIR (not electronic, sheesh) filters next time I go there to charge. Thanks for the heads up cwerdna!

 

[finman100]

"How much good would it be behind the building? How many people walking the lot are going to see that $15,000 charger?"

Okay, then maintain it to "show it off". I'd say having a non-functional unit prominently displayed is not a good selling point.

"hiding" it behind the building in a better shaded spot would accomplish alot more. But i didn't spend the $$$ to get it installed at all, so i get the "idea' of having it out front. Marketing, etc. sure, sure.

Maybe some more critical thinking is needed. I mean, it is a piece of equipment that produces heat when working. I just assume people smarter than me would say, "well, shade will help this, install it over there" or "let's put up a canopy". It will rain again here in the Willamette Valley, plus you get sun protection. Maybe my next job needs to be a charging station installer...

 

[kieranmullen]

In case anyone wants the file
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0tHt3-yyqrvc3gzdFptdWJTc2c/edit?usp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://bayfiles.net/file/1jFX3/cyI2eJ/Emailing_DCQC_Filter_Cleaning_and_Maintenance.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can attest to some QC being unreliable. The Chargepoint one at Power Nissan in Salem, OR has an overheating problem during the day (it can and has been hot here! over 90 F plus).
...

So I took look at http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/4382" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Since it's one of http://nissanqc.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, we've been having overheating problems w/these units in the Bay Area starting awhile back. A persistent Bay Area Leaf was able to get a copy of "Nissan Fast Charger Filter Cleaning and Maintenance" from Aerovironment The FIVE air filters on it MUST be cleaned periodically otherwise they will hit "0x051E, Thermostat Error (Charger malfunction)".

Filename is DCQC Filter Cleaning and Maintenance.pdf. I can't upload it as PDFs aren't allowed and ZIPed, it's too big.

Those who are in the SF Bay Leafs FB group can get it from https://www.facebook.com/groups/BayLeafs/691792637545067/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (from the https://www.facebook.com/groups/BayLeafs/files/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; tab).

 

[alcalira]

Eaton QC in Vacaville, CA also failed and I hear it is the control board. In a critical location alongside I-80 between San Francisco and Sacramento. This was the first QC in Northern California, grand opening attended by all sorts of industry execs. Like the one in TN, maybe it's time to contact the CEO? It's not good for Eaton's reputation to have broken QC's sitting around with no $ to fix them.

 

[finman100]

Thanks kieranmullen for the file! I am going to print it and show them the next time i'm up there. It's my stop for any PDX runs, so is kinda important that I can rely on it. Other Blinks are on I-5, but I can't say no to free!

Curt

 

[tazaroo]

I noticed this same problem around my area. The quick chargers were great in the spring and early summer but the last month or so I have only got 2 out of 5 to be working when I got there making things very inconvenient as often there was not a second choice for a quick charge. They probably need cleaning as mentioned above.

These cars are great for short road trips when the chargers work but it hard to plan it seems. We also are starting to get crowded out on our level 2's now. My wife if very unhappy right now as I sent her on a 50 mile one way trip with plans to charge at a 4 stall level two charging station while she was going to be there for 2 or 3 hours and sure as the world they were all taken causing her to park in a paid parking deck and look for a charger to get enough to get home while she just waits there. I am more understanding with these kind of issues but the wife is not.

 

[mbender]

It's unacceptable that these have so many issues, moreover that they can take forever to be repaired. The "technology" really isn't or shouldn't be that difficult.

There are several threads on this issue, and I hope Nissan is paying attention. And even if individual units were more reliable (say up-time in the 4 or 5 "9" range), there'd still be large problems looming ahead, what with splintered networks, insufficient #s, exorbitant fees, and on and on. To my knowledge, Tesla has none of these problems (save for some popular locations, resulting in wait times), and should thus deservedly eat EVery other player's lunch, as it were.

 

[tazaroo]

My wife just went to another quick charge that was out of order. Now She is going to have to wait at an level 2 to get enough charge to get her home. She was suppose to back to work after the dentist appt. She loves her car but is upset and wished she had drove the old ice right now. Something has to be done here. Rant over LOL.