60 Mile Daily Commute.

[GRA]

Guy,

You need to stop exaggerating and tone down your scare tactics.

56 miles at 65 mph should be doable even allowing for 20% battery degradation after 5+ years.

Sure, 56 miles _by itself_ in ideal conditions is doable, barely. Here's the calcs, using Tony's chart:

Range at 65 mph cruise = 75 miles

(10% degradation) 75 x .9 = 67.5 miles, with no reserve.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293#p101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I personally want at least 10% with a minimum of 10 miles as a reserve beyond the required range, so that gives me a maximum of 57.5 miles of range for planning purposes, under ideal conditions, just enough to do this commute. If the OP is comfortable running with no reserve, fine, he's got the full 67.5 miles.

(20% degradation) 75 x .8 = 60 miles, with no reserve. (50 miles for 10 mile reserve).

Now let's allow for A/C use, and also allow for some errands/lunch runs which he says he sometimes makes, and also detours/winds/rain etc. He's going to be borderline. That is not exaggeration, not scare tactics, it's reality. I want this poster to be happy with his choice, not just when it's new but down the road. If these are parameters he can live with, terrific, or maybe he will be willing to alter his driving (say by slowing down to 60 or 55 on the freeway, or taking side roads), or better yet be able to charge at work, in which case he's golden. If not, he should choose some other vehicle which will better meet his needs. Either way, it's better for him to have this info up front when he's making his decision rather than finding it out later, and that's why he asked us.

 

[rifleryan]

Guy I appreciate your info. Today I have the demo again and it is about 105 degrees again. I used 38 miles in the morning at freeway speeds with AC and from 100 it went all the way down to 44 when I got to work. That would have given me 44 to make it back to dealer which is about 28 miles a way and at full freeway speeds that could be iffy, especially since I used 56 to do 38. Luckily I found a blink network charging station within a 5 minute walk of where I work. I charged it for 3 hours and it is back up to 89 which is good. Also the parking garage next to my building does have ac so I could charge there if needed. This may work out for me, but Guy is right. You have to work out the variables and in the extreme heat which it is only May and will certainly be much worse soon I will have to keep those things into consideration.

 

[planet4ever]

I used 38 miles in the morning at freeway speeds with AC and from 100 it went all the way down to 44 when I got to work. That would have given me 44 to make it back to dealer which is about 28 miles a way and at full freeway speeds that could be iffy, especially since I used 56 to do 38.

You are putting way too much faith in what we call the "GuessOMeter", or GOM for short. I suggest you ignore that altogether until you get near "empty", and then treat it as a bit conservative. Much better, though still far from ideal, is to watch the 12 blue-and-white bars. When you get down to five (the top of the "electric gas pump" is poking above the first bar lit up) your battery is about half empty. When you get down to zero bars you can start believing the GOM.

Ray

 

[mkjayakumar]

In fact after driving at highway speeds if the GOM says 44 remaining then you pretty much have that much left driving at the same speed, or have much more if your driving at lesser speeds.

On the other hand if you have been driving slowly at city speeds for the last 30 miles and the GOM says 44 remaining, then you have 44 at around the same speeds and much less at highway speeds.

Jay

 

[TonyWilliams]

In fact after driving at highway speeds if the GOM says 44 remaining then you pretty much have that much left driving at the same speed, or have much more if your driving at lesser speeds.

On the other hand if you have been driving slowly at city speeds for the last 30 miles and the GOM says 44 remaining, then you have 44 at around the same speeds and much less at highway speeds.

Jay

That may or may not work in flat areas. In not flat areas, it absolutely will not work. Like always, relying on the GuessOmeter is poor planning.

 

[GRA]

Guy I appreciate your info. Today I have the demo again and it is about 105 degrees again. I used 38 miles in the morning at freeway speeds with AC and from 100 it went all the way down to 44 when I got to work. That would have given me 44 to make it back to dealer which is about 28 miles a way and at full freeway speeds that could be iffy, especially since I used 56 to do 38. Luckily I found a blink network charging station within a 5 minute walk of where I work. I charged it for 3 hours and it is back up to 89 which is good. Also the parking garage next to my building does have ac so I could charge there if needed. This may work out for me, but Guy is right. You have to work out the variables and in the extreme heat which it is only May and will certainly be much worse soon I will have to keep those things into consideration.

As others have pointed out, don't rely on the GOM.

If you've got charging near your job (with a backup; Blinks have been unreliable), I'd say go for it. L1 is fine in your situation. Or at least, you can opt for a BEV of some type, although personally I'd prefer one with a TMS until we have far more comprehensive data on how the Leaf's battery holds up in high temps.

As others have said, I'd be more inclined to lease a Leaf rather than buy in your situation, until that data is available. With a 56 mile commute, that's 280 miles/week if you never use the Leaf for any other purpose. Assuming 48 weeks of commuting/year (the other four eaten up by vacations/holidays/sick leave) you'll be putting on at least 13,440 miles/year, or 1,120 miles/month. Over the course of a 39 month lease that's 43,680 miles.

More likely you'll be doing 15,000 miles/year or more (1,250/month), or 48,750 over a 39 month lease. Tony's chart gives a nominal degradation of 2%/10,000 miles. ISTR seeing that figure on some performance graph or other, but don't remember if it was for a Leaf cell or even for a Li-ion battery with the same chemistry. And it was almost certainly for a cell at 20C (68 deg. F), rather than the kind of temps your battery will be experiencing. The one thing we are sure of with all batteries to date is that hot temps degrade their capacity faster.

If you were in California and you were willing to take a chance on a startup using a Chinese-built glider, I'd recommend you consider a Coda, as they have more than adequate range for you and a TMS. But since they lack any dealers or service in your area that's a non-starter, and the RAV4 will apparently be out for the same reason even if you can afford it. Since you missed the ActiveE lease, at the moment that leaves you with the Leaf, Focus, or (with workplace charging) a Mitsubishi i (not counting a Tesla), or maybe a Honda Fit a few months down the road. Chances are in a couple of years ranges and/or charging infrastructure will increase enough that your choices won't be so constrained, which is another reason why I'd recommend leasing for now.

HTH.

 

[SanDust]

I personally want at least 10% with a minimum of 10 miles as a reserve beyond the required range, so that gives me a maximum of 57.5 miles of range for planning purposes, under ideal conditions, just enough to do this commute. If the OP is comfortable running with no reserve, fine, he's got the full 67.5 miles.

He said he didn't "want to sweat it" which to me means he doesn't want to see a LB warning. As you've pointed out, he's going to see those warnings regularly. On the other hand, what I've noticed is that people who ask the question "will the Leaf work for me" on this forum aren't so much looking for information as for confirmation that it will work.

 

[GRA]

rifleryan, one last thought. If you're sure you'll have charging available during the day, the Volt is also an option. It can do the commute one-way on battery no problem, and with somewhere between 4-8 hours of L1 can do the return trip (Volt owners can give you a more accurate answer, so you could ask in their thread in the 'Other Electric Vehicles' sub-forum). It will cost you more up front than a Leaf, but range-anxiety won't be a factor, it has a TMS, and it uses a smaller proportion of its total battery capacity so it should easily last out a lease period or several years longer. I don't know what kind of vehicle you have for trips beyond BEV range, but the Volt could do both.

[Added] Check out this thread, it's right up your alley:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8861" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[DANandNAN]

rifleryan, one last thought. If you're sure you'll have charging available during the day, the Volt is also an option. It can do the commute one-way on battery no problem, and with somewhere between 4-8 hours of L1 can do the return trip (Volt owners can give you a more accurate answer, so you could ask in their thread in the 'Other Electric Vehicles' sub-forum). It will cost you more up front than a Leaf, but range-anxiety won't be a factor, it has a TMS, and it uses a smaller proportion of its total battery capacity so it should easily last out a lease period or several years longer. I don't know what kind of vehicle you have for trips beyond BEV range, but the Volt could do both.

[Added] Check out this thread, it's right up your alley:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8861" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Volt and the 2011 & 2012 Leaf charge at the same rate (AC) because both have the 3.3 charger. If that EVSE (Blink station) is L2 (in other words 240V) you'll get 40 miles in 4 hours. If it's a L1 (110V) then it'll take about 8. I doubt it's a L1, but I think you can check the Blink website to find out.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Either car should work well, and you'll probably have to charge either choice - the Volt for sure unless you wanted to use the on-board generator, and I personally would charge the Leaf because that's cutting it a bit close for my tastes. Either way, welcome to the EVolution

 

[RegGuheert]

Hello I live in Arizona and work about 28 miles away which is mostly freeway driving from my house. I would like to purchase a Leaf but worry about the heat in Arizona and the battery life not lasting to get me to and from work and driving to make a circle K run or what not. So my question is are any users that currently own the Leaf making a commute with a similar range. Also because of the heat, and using AC would I even be able to get to work? If so do you require charging during the day or can you get to and from work and come home and fully charge the battery and make the same trip the next day. I already have a Blink EV Charging Station Card and I really want to do this but I have to be practical. I can't spend a lot of time during the day taking the car to a charging station and then busing to work and coming back and picking it up.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

I think you are right-on to be concerned about the effect of the heat on the battery capacity. Personally, I am not convinced you will be able to make that commute in Phoenix for 39 months. In case you have not yet leased the car and have not yet read the following thread, I will encourage you to read every page before making your decision:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To be extremely frank, I feel that Nissan should STOP selling LEAFs in Phoenix until they can get a handle on the extremely high capacity degradation their customers there are experiencing. Perhaps 36-month leases are the only thing they should allow in Phoenix.

I will also recommend that if you really want an electric vehicle that you look carefully at the Ford Focus Electric, since it has the range you require, but it also has an active battery management system which (hopefully) will help the battery preserve it's capacity through the high-temperature periods in AZ. Even with the Ford I will recommend that you only lease until the dust settles on this issue of EVs in high-temperature areas.

A Chevy Volt might also be a good choice, although it does not have the range unless you can also charge at work.