A peek at the Leaf's Charger

[Ingineer]

I haven't done a full teardown, but here's the guts:


(Click picture for high-res shot)

-Phil

 

[mwalsh]

Just curious here. I came into this thread hoping to see tear-downs and details of the LEAF's onboard charger, but saw instead 11 pages of talking/whining about an illogical 6.6kw upgraded charger - which I'm pretty sure is not going to happen because it doesn't NEED to happen.

Try saying that when you have to stand with your car for an hour in order to get enough charge to get home. Or the AAA truck (unless you're lucky enough to get the one with the L3 charger) will only give you 15 minutes worth of L2 to get you off the highway.

 

[N952JL]

Just curious here. I came into this thread hoping to see tear-downs and details of the LEAF's onboard charger, but saw instead 11 pages of talking/whining about an illogical 6.6kw upgraded charger - which I'm pretty sure is not going to happen because it doesn't NEED to happen.

Try saying that when you have to stand with your car for an hour in order to get enough charge to get home. Or the AAA truck (unless you're lucky enough to get the one with the L3 charger) will only give you 15 minutes worth of L2 to get you off the highway.

I agree, if you are at home the 3.3 is ok, but for public charging in and around town on a trip it is almost useless. There are no public L3 in middle GA and only the Nissan dealerships have public L2. But at 3.3 it would take hours for enough of a charge to take you anywhere. Now at 6.6 a two hour dinner, or Movie can give you a 20 to 30 mile charge.

 

[ebill3]

Just curious here. I came into this thread hoping to see tear-downs and details of the LEAF's onboard charger, but saw instead 11 pages of talking/whining about an illogical 6.6kw upgraded charger - which I'm pretty sure is not going to happen because it doesn't NEED to happen.

Paraphrasing Priscilla, "Speak for yourself, John Alden". I haven't needed to L2 away from home very often, but when I have, I sure would have liked 6.6. Twenty plus miles for an hour at a buck and a half at a public Blink would be quite nice.

 

[mwalsh]

I haven't needed to L2 away from home very often, but when I have, I sure would have liked 6.6. Twenty plus miles for an hour at a buck and a half at a public Blink would be quite nice.

Well, that's the other thing...I feel ripped off that I'm paying twice as much for public charging as the FFE or 2013 LEAF owner. Good job I don't have to charge away from home often!

 

[grommet]

I feel ripped off that I'm paying twice as much for public charging as the FFE or 2013 LEAF owner. Good job I don't have to charge away from home often!

Car Charging Inc, owner of many parking garage EVSE sites, charges 49 cents per kWh when allowed. Do you feel better now?

 

[mwalsh]

Car Charging Inc, owner of many parking garage EVSE sites, charges 49 cents per kWh when allowed. Do you feel better now?

Yes, much better to be charged by the kWh!

 

[davewill]

... I agree, if you are at home the 3.3 is ok, but for public charging in and around town on a trip it is almost useless. There are no public L3 in middle GA and only the Nissan dealerships have public L2. But at 3.3 it would take hours for enough of a charge to take you anywhere. Now at 6.6 a two hour dinner, or Movie can give you a 20 to 30 mile charge.

I usually count an hour of L2 (3.3kW) as good for 12-13 miles of range. Two hours at dinner would give you 25 miles. Even 3.3kW, public L2 can be very useful.

 

[mwalsh]

I usually count an hour of L2 (3.3kW) as good for 12-13 miles or range. Two hours at dinner would give you 25 miles. Even 3.3kW, public L2 can be very useful.

Agreed. IF you have the time to kill.

 

[DaveEV]

I agree, if you are at home the 3.3 is ok, but for public charging in and around town on a trip it is almost useless.

Personally, I would have found 6.6 kW (or even faster, like 10 kW) charging even at home useful on occasion. But I'd absolutely want to be able to dial it down for normal over-night charging.

 

[ebill3]

Personally, I would have found 6.6 kW (or even faster, like 10 kW) charging even at home useful on occasion. But I'd absolutely want to be able to dial it down for normal over-night charging.

Why?

Charging at 6.6 kW is what, about 16 Amps into the battery? Not really that high a rate for such a large pack.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Personally, I would have found 6.6 kW (or even faster, like 10 kW) charging even at home useful on occasion. But I'd absolutely want to be able to dial it down for normal over-night charging.

Why?

Charging at 6.6 kW is what, about 16 mps into the battery? Not really that high a rate for such a large pack.

6600w / 240v = 27.5a

 

[ebill3]

Personally, I would have found 6.6 kW (or even faster, like 10 kW) charging even at home useful on occasion. But I'd absolutely want to be able to dial it down for normal over-night charging.

Why?

Charging at 6.6 kW is what, about 16 mps into the battery? Not really that high a rate for such a large pack.

6600w / 240v = 27.5a

27.5 Amps into the charger, not into the battery.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Charging at 6.6 kW is what, about 16 mps into the battery? Not really that high a rate for such a large pack.

6600w / 240v = 27.5a

Into the charger.

Presumably, the charger output is 388-394v, so:

6600w / 394v = 16.75a

 

[ebill3]

Charging at 6.6 kW is what, about 16 mps into the battery? Not really that high a rate for such a large pack.

6600w / 240v = 27.5a

Into the charger.

Presumably, the charger output is 388-394v, so:

6600w / 394v = 16.75a

OK then, 16.75 Amps. Still, not that high a rate.

 

[DaveEV]

Personally, I would have found 6.6 kW (or even faster, like 10 kW) charging even at home useful on occasion. But I'd absolutely want to be able to dial it down for normal over-night charging.

Why?

Charging at 6.6 kW is what, about 16 Amps into the battery? Not really that high a rate for such a large pack.

I'm more worried about the grid than my battery...

 

[ebill3]

Personally, I would have found 6.6 kW (or even faster, like 10 kW) charging even at home useful on occasion. But I'd absolutely want to be able to dial it down for normal over-night charging.

Why?

Charging at 6.6 kW is what, about 16 Amps into the battery? Not really that high a rate for such a large pack.

I'm more worried about the grid than my battery...

OK, point taken.

 

[RegGuheert]

Personally, I would have found 6.6 kW (or even faster, like 10 kW) charging even at home useful on occasion. But I'd absolutely want to be able to dial it down for normal over-night charging.

Why?

Charging at 6.6 kW is what, about 16 Amps into the battery? Not really that high a rate for such a large pack.

That's a little faster than C/4. It doesn't sound like much, but since the LEAF doesn't have much capability to cool itself while charging, it could make a difference in battery life versus 3.3 kW, particularly if you use it every night in hotter climates.

The potential for significant heating at 6.6 kW gets worse as the battery ages. If we assume the battery resistance goes up by a factor of four over the life of the car, then a 6.6 kW charger will dump about 16X as much I^2R heat into an aging LEAF battery as we currently see with our 3.3 kW chargers and new LEAFs. While I'm not sure what fraction of the charging heat comes from resistive losses, I will assume that 16X the current amount would make it an important part.

I have picked up an additional EVSEUpgrade unit used for potential use with a future EV since I find they are high quality and that charging rate suits me fine for home use.

All that said, I would like to have a 6.6 kW charger for away-from-home charging, as well, but it would be nice if the rate were selectable from the car.

 

[mwalsh]

All that said, I would like to have a 6.6 kW charger for away-from-home charging, as well, but it would be nice if the rate were selectable from the car.

Agreed. Best of both worlds...slower charging when time permits; faster charging when it doesn't.

 

[TimeHorse]

Just curious here. I came into this thread hoping to see tear-downs and details of the LEAF's onboard charger, but saw instead 11 pages of talking/whining about an illogical 6.6kw upgraded charger - which I'm pretty sure is not going to happen because it doesn't NEED to happen.

Insulting the drives who have replied and me by thinking that all LEAF drivers are a monolithic group that you totally represent is not the way to get this discussion back on the right track. You want us to talk about the charger, just ask about the charger. No need to paint these broad strokes claiming that 3.3kW charging is so convenient or even 1.44kW charging like you do at your home.

As point of fact, charging on the go is an issue as others have pointed out, especially in states like Maryland where they're not allowed to bill per kWh. But what's more when you drive typically 70 mi per day you need about 4:45 minutes at 3.8kW charging to get back to 100 (and 80% is right out) and when your Super-Off-Peak is only 4 hours like in Virginia and the "finish by" timer is grossly inaccurate in the LEAF you end up lamenting there aren't 3-day programmable chargers on the LEAF so you could charge a bit before SOP ToU on Tuesday to Friday, 80% on the Weekends but as the car doesn't typically need 4 hours on Monday Monday should start at SOP ToU, not before it because I don't need the extra buffer.

6.6kW: 2 timers: Weekends 01:00 to 05:00 or 80%; Weekdays 01:00 to 05:00 to 100%, simple!

Hopefully I'll get a Blink EVSE in a month so I can put the third timer on that rather than trying to deal with all this timer-juggling on the LEAF.

Now, I've never said the 6.6kW should be standard. Clearly many are happy with 1.44kW home charging and I'm glad this works for them. I've always seen 6.6kW charging as an option that costs a bit more and can be values in terms of direct financial benefit and indirect through time saved. I know that I don't represent all LEAF drivers.

Point being you do not represent all LEAF drivers and it's trolling to say you do which is no way to advance the debate.

And one last point back on topic is I spoke with a team that's down at the University of Virginia at Charlottesville who have adapted the LEAF to accept inductive charging and although the gauge of the wiring in the LEAF's L2 harness (12 Gauge IIRC) isn't enough to handle 28A-32A steady current for 6.7kW L2 (10 Gauge would be ideal) they were able to bypass that and hook the inductive unit directly into the charger so it is possible an inductive upgrade via a floor pad could[/] include a 6.6kW charger upgrade but that's something I'll leave to the experts to investigate. Remember though 6.7kW at the inductive unit may mean 4.7kW - 5.4kW maybe at the charger.