Advocate installation of L1 Charging at work

[tbleakne]

For a long time there has been plenty of discussion on this forum about how useful and economical L1 charging would be at airports, where you are leaving your LEAF or other EV for one or more days.

With the increased sales of Volt and PiP, L1 charging would also be valuable at the workplace, where your car is sitting for 8 or more hours. No worries about one vehicle hogging a J1772 cable for longer than its charge time, or asking folks to interrupt their work day by returning to their vehicle and unplugging.

Approximate L1 Charging times
PiP - 3.5 kWh (full) in 3 hours - 1/2 day
Volt - 10 kWh (full) in 8 hours
LEAF - 10 kWh (half) in 8 hours

For many Volt drivers, charging at both home and office would allow driving 100% electric for their daily commute. LEAFs commuting 25 or more miles each way could use L1 to augment their home charge if they have lost substantial battery capacity.

One J1772 installation requires 40A breaker, 30A continuous, 10-gauge wire.
The same wiring, with the addition of a neutral, can supply four 12A continuous L1 sockets.
Upgrading to 8-gauge wire, 60A breaker, 48A continuous could supply eight 12A L1 sockets.

I am retired, but perhaps some of you folks might wish to adopt a New Years Resolution to lobby for L1 installation at your workplace in the coming year. I realize you often get blowback and excuses, but perhaps persistence can pay off. It just makes so much sense.

 

[EVDRIVER]

PArt of the issue has bee companies pushing free L2 candy to private business so they see it as a better deal. I have been advocating L1 for a long time for this application.

 

[Reddy]

This was posted on the forum some time ago. I especially like the approval tag. Use this if you need a more technical reference to advocate for more L1 instead of L2: http://www.todaysengineer.org/2012/Feb/EV-Charging.asp

Reddy

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Hear hear! I am a believer in L1 workplace charging being able to support a significant portion of an EV's needs.

A friend of mine has developed a low-cost L1 solution which is more elegant than an outlet.

http://www.evextend.com/Products.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[smkettner]

I know it is more money but I would rather have Clipper Creek L1 with a J connector ready to go rather than pull out my brick.

http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/ClipperCreekInc/-strse-19/ACS-dsh-20-Level-1-Permanent/Detail.bok

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I know it is more money but I would rather have Clipper Creek L1 with a J connector ready to go rather than pull out my brick.

http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/ClipperCreekInc/-strse-19/ACS-dsh-20-Level-1-Permanent/Detail.bok

That's a pretty nice looking unit! I agree, from the user's perspective that's a lot more convenient. From the installer's perspective, though, the price makes it less attractive (particularly if they will then proceed to give you free electricity).

I may consider one of these for my garage when I get my second plug-in.

 

[tbleakne]

I know it is more money but I would rather have Clipper Creek L1 with a J connector ready to go rather than pull out my brick.

http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/ClipperCreekInc/-strse-19/ACS-dsh-20-Level-1-Permanent/Detail.bok

I agree pulling out the brick every day would be a drag, plus the risk of having it disappear.

Why not have the cars equipped with a female hooded receptacle like desk-top computers use ? Then you would just have a simple 120V 12 gauge cable. This is too simple; I most likely am not the first to suggest this.

 

[Stoaty]

Approximate L1 Charging times
PiP - 3.5 kWh (full) in 3 hours - 1/2 day
Volt - 10 kWh (full) in 8 hours
LEAF - 10 kWh (half) in 8 hours

Actually, 8 hours of L1 charging of the Leaf will give you about 8-9 kWh of charge... at least that's what my Leaf gets.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

So, the large employer I work for has agreed to install EVSE's, on a small scale to start, but siting them to allow for expansion. They will pay for the equipment and the install, but insist on passing the kWh cost to employees. They want to contract with a turn-key RFID service provider, such as Chargepoint. They will also absorb the cost of the service fees. They will not seek profit from the kWh charges, just pass them to employees, and they should be less than market as they generate their own power with solar and an on-site combination power generation, heat, and industrial steam station.

They agree L1 with RFID would be preferred, and would like to develop a list of service providers operating in Massachusetts to choose from.

I will contact Chargepoint, as I see them here already.
Blink doesn't seem to be in NE, but I read here that Blink has a lot of problems anyway.
The GE Wattstation has problems, but are their commercial units any better?
I see some Schneider RFID units on Home Depot, do they offer a service? They all seem to be L2, which my company will install if needed as well.
Not sure about Eaton, or AV either.

I will be researching all of these, and any others you can throw my way, and will much appreciate any leads or links you may have.

If you are a sales rep for a service firm, please message me and I will hook you up with the decision maker involved.

Thanks.

 

[smkettner]

It has always been my impression that by the time you add all the RFID, service plans and administration of billing..... the company would be better to just get the low cost Clipper Creek L1 or Leviton 160 L2 with no fees or management. Cost reduction would probably pay most of the electric also. But I could see paying an agreed annual fee to use the connection at will. A simple timer could disable the connections at off hours.

 

[abasile]

In response to my multiple requests for regular L1 charging at work, even when I've offered to pay, I've been told in no uncertain terms that the answer from upper management is "no". This is very disappointing. So my "solution" for now is to hang out at a public EVSE after work if I need more charge to get home, typically on the coldest days. This issue will have to rest for the time being. Aside from the lack of EV support, my employer does have its good points.

Ultimately, with permission to charge, my hope would be to enable others with significant commutes to switch to EVs as well. Given L1 availability, it's easy to see a number of people making the switch.

 

[thankyouOB]

I know it is more money but I would rather have Clipper Creek L1 with a J connector ready to go rather than pull out my brick.

http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/ClipperCreekInc/-strse-19/ACS-dsh-20-Level-1-Permanent/Detail.bok

I agree pulling out the brick every day would be a drag, plus the risk of having it disappear.

Why not have the cars equipped with a female hooded receptacle like desk-top computers use ? Then you would just have a simple 120V 12 gauge cable. This is too simple; I most likely am not the first to suggest this.

they charge $700 bucks to put a three-prong plug on one end and the j1772 on the other?
nuts

i get my L1 out every day at work and it is really no bother. takes less than three minutes extra, and I coil it up in an carry all box that is 24 by 12, so that I dont have to tightly wind it when it gets back in the boot.
of course, i have pretty secure parking, so the loss of it has never seemed an issue at my workplace.

 

[davewill]

It has always been my impression that by the time you add all the RFID, service plans and administration of billing..... the company would be better to just get the low cost Clipper Creek L1 or Leviton 160 L2 with no fees or management. Cost reduction would probably pay most of the electric also. But I could see paying an agreed annual fee to use the connection at will. A simple timer could disable the connections at off hours.

Quite possibly. Another option is for the company to put in the simple (non RFID) EVSE, and give the employees a placard to put on their dash. Anyone without a placard gets unplugged (and maybe towed). Visitors with EVs get a placard from reception. You can even charge the employees a few bucks a month for the privilege.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

It has always been my impression that by the time you add all the RFID, service plans and administration of billing..... the company would be better to just get the low cost Clipper Creek L1 or Leviton 160 L2 with no fees or management. Cost reduction would probably pay most of the electric also. But I could see paying an agreed annual fee to use the connection at will. A simple timer could disable the connections at off hours.

Quite possibly. Another option is for the company to put in the simple (non RFID) EVSE, and give the employees a placard to put on their dash. Anyone without a placard gets unplugged (and maybe towed). Visitors with EVs get a placard from reception. You can even charge the employees a few bucks a month for the privilege.

Man, I wish it could be that easy, but this is a very large global company, employing about 300,000, and they don't care about the cost, or the fees, they'll support that much, and seem happy to do so,but they're dead set on passing the kWh costs to employees.

They think of it as a combination of fairness to ICE drivers, since they dont provide free gas, but still want to support EV's who don't have fueling stations on every corner.

They're also very concerned about setting a precedent. Giving a few EVs free kWh is one thing, providing kWh's to 300,000 EV's is something else, and they believe that EV's have a high probability of replacing ICE's in the future. So, RFID it will be.

I've had good reponses so far from ChargePoint and AV. Good to see a quick sales response, getting in the door to a large firm can lead to servicing a large account going forward.

 

[KJD]

I've had good reponses so far from ChargePoint and AV. Good to see a quick sales response, getting in the door to a large firm can lead to servicing a large account going forward.

Have you talked to Clipper Creek. I have read good things about their equipment.
http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/ClipperCreekInc/-strse-20/CS-dsh-40-With-Liberty-Plugin/Detail.bok" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Thanks, will check into Clipper Creek and Leviton as well.

 

[leafedbehind]

My employer is planning to do basically the same thing -- L2 via RFID, and charging by the (industrial-rate) kWh, which is quite reasonable in California relative to third-tier or higher residential rates that many EV owners end up landing in. We will have two spaces per charger, so that even though the driver to arrive second has to go plug in at some point in the day, at least no one has to move his car. Right now, we have free L1, but it is oversubscribed.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Our current thinking is to have a mix of L1 and L2.

More L1's as most commuters here either live less than 30 miles away from work, or will have plug-in hybrids, and L1 will suffice.

Some L2's for people who live over 30 miles out, or just need the faster charge for whatever reason.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Found this, here: http://www.pikeresearch.com/research/electric-vehicle-charging-equipment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted for your reference. The research report costs over $3k, not going there.


5. Key Industry Players

5.1   EVSE Manufacturers and Service Companies

5.1.1     350Green
5.1.2     ABB
5.1.3     AeroVironment Inc.
5.1.4     Aker Wade Power Technologies
5.1.5     Better Place
5.1.6     CarCharging Group, Inc.
5.1.7     Chargemaster Plc
5.1.8     CLEVER
5.1.9     ClipperCreek, Inc.
5.1.10   Coulomb Technologies Inc.
5.1.11   DBT
5.1.12   Delphi Automotive LLP
5.1.13   Eaton Corporation
5.1.14   ECOtality
5.1.15   Efacec
5.1.16   Elektromotive Ltd.
5.1.17   Eltek Valere
5.1.18   Evatran (Plugless Power)
5.1.19   EV Connect
5.1.20   General Electric
5.1.21   Gridtest Systems
5.1.22   Hager
5.1.23   Legrand
5.1.24   Leviton Manufacturing Co. Ltd.
5.1.25   Magna E-Car Systems
5.1.26   POD Point
5.1.27   Qualcomm Halo
5.1.28   Recharge Solutions International
5.1.29   Schneider Electric
5.1.30   SemaConnect
5.1.31   Siemens AG
5.5.1.32   WiTricity Corporation

5.2   Utilities Offering EVSE and Charging Services

5.2.1     CPS Energy
5.2.2     Endesa S.A.
5.2.3     NRG Energy
5.2.4     Pacific Gas & Electric
5.2.5     Portland General Electric
5.2.6     PowerStream
5.2.7     San Diego Gas and Electric
5.2.8     Southern California Edison

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

An update:

ChargePoint, AV, ClipperCreek, and Leviton all responded. Tried to get Schneider onboard, but they don't have their act together.

Employer's early hesitance overcome on learning that 30% EVSE tax credit applies to them. Went all in when they applied for and won a grant from th US Dept. of Energy for a free EVSE, from ChargePoint, who got the nod.

Unfortunately, the EVSE is their CT2021, dual L2, so no L1, but it's a beginning.

Trying still to push for getting some L1 only, or an EVSE from ChargePoint's CT2100 line, which include two NEMA 5-20 outlets 110v, behind locking doors, and still RFID capable. Salesman tells me these are waning in popularity, so may be able to negotiate a better price.

Now they're actively working out how to replace their Ford Transit security van with a least a C-Max hybrid (plug-in?), or an eNV200 when it comes out here.