All "Future" battery technology thread

[RegGuheert]

In light of the recent reports of capacity loss in some LEAFs in Phoenix, I was doing a little research on the effects of temperature on Li-ion batteries and I came across this article in MIT's Technology Review in which they discuss some of the issues along with a new approach to the problem by a company named Leyden Energy:

Leyden's battery replaces lithium hexafluorophosphate, one of the components of a lithium-ion battery, with imide salt. Unlike lithium hexafluorophosphate, it does not react with water inside the battery cell, a reaction that significantly degrades the cycle life of a battery. Lithium hexafluorophosphate also starts to decompose at room temperature and loses its effectiveness more significantly when the temperature hits 55 °C. Imide salt doesn't start to decompose at higher temperatures.

This technology seems like it would be a good candidate for a replacement battery for a vehicle like the LEAF which does not have an active battery cooling system.

 

[Herm]

55 ºC = 131 ºF

Hmm, thats the magical temperature that manufacturers start to talk about accelerated battery degradation. Makes the recent patent by GM of a battery with refillable electrolyte more interesting.

 

[RegGuheert]

Makes the recent patent by GM of a battery with refillable electrolyte more interesting.

Why? The new Leyden Energy battery shows NO cycle life degradation, even when all of the cycles are done at 60C: Leyden Energy 18650 cell product information

One red flag I see (or rather, DON'T see) on Leyden's website is there is NO mention of power or specific power for their technology. I'm wondering if they have greatly increased the resistance of the cell by going to the graphite collector.

 

[ERG4ALL]

In all of the discussion, the Naysayers indicate that EVs will never become wide spread until the cost of the batteries brings the initial purchase price down to compete with some lesser ICE vehicle. When one compares $4.00 a gallon gasoline to go 20 miles, with $0.25 to $0.30 of electricity (charging at night) to go 20 miles, one can save $200 per month or more (including oil and filter changes). That was the choice that I faced when I traded in my PT Cruiser GTO for our LEAF. Thus, with a small down payment, the car could either be leased or purchased and then apply the $200 to the payment. When I extended that savings over the eight years I kept the PT Cruiser and the eight year battery warrantee of the LEAF, I came out over $7,000 ahead and that includes the $25,000 price of the Cruiser and the $35,500 price of the LEAF.

When I added in the subsidies of Tax Credits and Registration savings over the eight years I came out $17,000 ahead. Of course, if you are inclined to trade in and get a new vehicle every three or four years, then this wouldn't be right for you. But then you would be taking a tremendous hit on the depreciation which is highest the first couple of years. In my case I drive about 12,000 miles per year, so I figure that eight years and close to 100,000 miles is the most cost effective before a car starts needing excessive repairs.

Another gripe I have about comparisons based purely on cost of gas vs. initial purchase price of EVs (specifically the LEAF) involves the extent of the comparisons. Our LEAF is the most full featured car we have ever owned. As many of you know, it has Bluetooth, color back up camera, hands free voice recognition phone, MP3 compatible, power mirrors, auto dimming rear view mirror, satellite radio, CD player, power windows, power door locks, keyless entry, A/C, GPS with trip planning and voice guidance and probably some other features I've lost in a senior moment. Yet this type of car will be compared to some $16,000 car that won't have near all those features.

People are so used to looking at the first cost while ignoring the operating cost and the features that the car may have. It may take a while to change the mindset with which we purchase cars and to draw fair comparisons. And if you care anything about the environment in our major cities, that is just a plus.

 

[Herm]

An article that mentions NMC cells made by Kokam

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/05/quantum-20120531.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Current Dow Kokam cells use nickel metal cobalt (NMC) technology, and feature an energy density of 143 mAh/g, with a high cycle life of 2,000 cycles at 80% discharge."

2000 cycles is mighty nice, but I was expecting a bit more energy density.

 

[LEAFfan]

Here's a new amazing battery technology (solid state) that's supposed to be commercialized in just 12 months. "The technology, if it is commercialized, could transform the battery life in everything from smartphones to tablets and electric vehicles in the future."

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/innovation/item/27460-us-start-up-aims-to/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Herm]

Sounds difficult to make, hopefully not.

 

[mkjayakumar]

What about EnviaSystems.com ? They claim 400 Wh/kg tested by independent labs.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Here's a new amazing battery technology (solid state) that's supposed to be commercialized in just 12 months. "The technology, if it is commercialized, could transform the battery life in everything from smartphones to tablets and electric vehicles in the future."

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/innovation/item/27460-us-start-up-aims-to/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is more snake oil peddling in the battery market is greater than almost any other industry and 90% of it is all PR. Everything is just 12-24 month away, year after year.... I love the BS product dates and timelines researchers and companies attempt to peddle every month.

 

[GRA]

Here's a new amazing battery technology (solid state) that's supposed to be commercialized in just 12 months. "The technology, if it is commercialized, could transform the battery life in everything from smartphones to tablets and electric vehicles in the future."

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/innovation/item/27460-us-start-up-aims-to/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is more snake oil peddling in the battery market is greater than almost any other industry and 90% of it is all PR. Everything is just 12-24 month away, year after year.... I love the BS product dates and timelines researchers and companies attempt to peddle every month.

Some things never change:

"The storage battery is one of those peculiar things which appeals to the imagination, and no more perfect thing could be desired by stock swindlers than that very self-same thing. Just as soon as a man gets working on the secondary battery it brings out his latent capacity for lying.” Thomas Edison, 1883.

Edison went on to make similar premature claims as those upthread for his NiFe battery, which was designed for BEVs among other uses, introducing it and then almost immediately recalling it owing to early failures. He then spent another 6 years improving it before it was re-introduced in its final form, where it proved extremely long-lived and damage tolerant, but more expensive to buy and not that much better in specific energy than then available L-A batteries (especially in cold weather).

 

[Stoaty]

The A123 nanophosphate battery sounds promising (don't they always :lol: ):

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/06/12/498076/troubled-battery-maker-a123-unveils-breakthrough-new-lithium-ion-technology/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[gsleaf]

This advancement looks promising, particularly this part " They expect to bring it to the market within a year."

http://news.wsu.edu/pages/publications.asp?Action=Detail&PublicationID=31776" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[mkjayakumar]

Between Envia SYstems and this one, hopefully something good should come out and help shut up naysayers and anti-Evangelists like John Petersen.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

In all these battery discussions is "energy density" always defined as energy/unit mass or is there also a consideration of energy/unit volume? I saw a (probably uninformed) comment that the IBM lithium air battery is promising but it may be too big, not too heavy.

Is this a factor for other battery technology ideas floating around?

 

[TEG]

Yeah, I think mass is the usual benchmark, and size seems rarely discussed.
The main topics of interest tend to be:

• 
  * power density (how powerful can the motor be?)
  * energy density (how far can the vehicle go?)
  * cost
  * cycle life

 

[Stoaty]

The main topics of interest tend to be:

• 
  * power density (how powerful can the motor be?)
  * energy density (how far can the vehicle go?)
  * cost
  * cycle life

And in the case of the Leaf (at least in Phoenix):

• 
  * calendar life

 

[Herm]

Is this a factor for other battery technology ideas floating around?

Yes it is, they usually call it volumetric density vs energy density. Light weight is important for vehicles but not so for stationary storage.

 

[LEAFfan]

This advancement looks promising, particularly this part " They expect to bring it to the market within a year."
http://news.wsu.edu/pages/publications.asp?Action=Detail&PublicationID=31776" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This said nothing about EV batteries for cars. According to the article, it's just for laptops, cell phones, and other small applications.

 

[mkjayakumar]

Envia Systems is the only one touting 300 mile range battery for cars

 

[RegGuheert]

"They expect to bring it to the market within a year."

I'm thinking there must be some universal law of the universe that says if you are writing an article about new battery technology you MUST include a statement like the one above!