Battery heater in cold weather

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Joined
Nov 9, 2023
Messages
754
Location
Lyman, Iowa
I have a 2015 SL and I'm going into my 1st cold weather snap since I purchased it in Nov.
My question is:
If the car is plugged in, and the charger timer used, will the battery heater pull off the charger power or off the battery? I suppose it doesn't make a huge difference, as any power used will be put back in on the next charge cycle.
Right now I have the charger set for 2 hr per night, as it cover the daily usage. So the question is should I just leave the charger on immediate charge and the car plugged in, when temps are near zero (F)?
What is protocol in very cold weather?
 
If you're talking about the battery heater and not pre-heating the car, then I wouldn't worry. The amount (and likelihood) of power consumed is small, and would be "replaced" during your (already scheduled) charging session.
Pre-heating the car is a different issue, and the timing of your charge (and pre-heat) may affect your final charge level.
 
Left the EVSE plugged in, -19F (actual temp) this morning. When I checked it this morning, it had used 1 Kwh of power since yesterday, and the 3rd light was flashing (12 volt charge) so it looks like it is heating the battery and keeping the 12 volt up.
Didn't "wake" it up to see what works. I haven't plowed us out yet, so no point.
Car sits in an unheated detached garage, that used to be the scale house for the farm when it has an axle scale. aren't many cars that will fit into it, as it is fairly small, even after the previous owner had widened and lengthened the structure.
 
Are the heaters in the pack, 12 volt or 360 volt? The reason I ask is because my Leaf is showing charging the 12 volt (3rd blue light flashing) and a 2 amp draw on the EVSE, for several hours now, I think that would only be possible if the heaters are drawing on the 12 volt system.
It powered up fine, but was attached to the EVSE so I would expect it to. Sill -15F here.
 
How does one tell if the warmer is even installed? My used 2018 S actually gained a few % overnight outdoors, unplugged, at -10. But then it came from SoCAl - they may not install the cold weather package there. It seems to be entirely automatic, and my manual does say (if installed) at the start of that section.
 
It would be so nice if these could just be turned on manually, so we could get a little more range and longevity in cold weather...
 
There is actually quite a bit of doubt that the 62kwh pack has an actual battery warmer, and some doubt that all of the 40kwh packs have one. Nissan seems to have replaced the old 300 watt heating pad with some mysterious software that 'exercises' the pack enough to warm it slightly.
 
I have a 2015 SL and I'm going into my 1st cold weather snap since I purchased it in Nov.
My question is:
If the car is plugged in, and the charger timer used, will the battery heater pull off the charger power or off the battery? I suppose it doesn't make a huge difference, as any power used will be put back in on the next charge cycle.
Right now I have the charger set for 2 hr per night, as it cover the daily usage. So the question is should I just leave the charger on immediate charge and the car plugged in, when temps are near zero (F)?
What is protocol in very cold weather?
I, too have some cold-weather questions:
  1. What are the safe discharge levels to leave my 2015 SV overnight at 0ºF? What is too low, what is too high?
  2. If I leave it plugged into my ClipperCreek 40A Level 2 charger on a timer overnight, will it heat the battery without charging?
  3. If not, should I leave it charging until it tops out, or is leaving it on a timer from 4AM - 6AM OK?
My basic question is what's the best protocol for prolonging my battery's life in the cold. Thanks!
 
I haven't got clear answers. When it is as cold as it has been -20F, I set my adjustable charger to 10 amps (longer slower charge) and take it off the charge timer. My reasoning is to allow the battery heaters to pull from the EVSE and not try and charge fast.
What I noticed was it charged, shut off and then did 12 volt charging (3rd light only flashing). If I left it on the timer it would try and charge every night. We aren't going out every day so I hope that it will be not re-starting the traction battery charger, but will maintain the 12 volt and battery heater off the EVSE.
When temps get normal again, I'll go back to my 1.5-2.0hrs of charge at night, with the input current set to 20 or 24 amp.
 
Are the heaters in the pack, 12 volt or 360 volt? The reason I ask is because my Leaf is showing charging the 12 volt (3rd blue light flashing) and a 2 amp draw on the EVSE, for several hours now, I think that would only be possible if the heaters are drawing on the 12 volt system.
It powered up fine, but was attached to the EVSE so I would expect it to. Sill -15F here.
They operate on the 360 voltage.
Heater_Diagram_fmt.jpeg
 
How does one tell if the warmer is even installed? My used 2018 S actually gained a few % overnight outdoors, unplugged, at -10. But then it came from SoCAl - they may not install the cold weather package there. It seems to be entirely automatic, and my manual does say (if installed) at the start of that section.
Any 2012 or later model year has the 300W heaters inside in the battery pack. The 2019 and later models with the 62 kWh battery don't have heaters, but some other method of warming up that I've been trying to figure out myself for years now. 🤣
Otherwise, everyone in Canada driving the larger capacity Leaf would have dead/damaged batteries from the longer time of extreme cold they experience.
 
There is actually quite a bit of doubt that the 62kwh pack has an actual battery warmer, and some doubt that all of the 40kwh packs have one. Nissan seems to have replaced the old 300 watt heating pad with some mysterious software that 'exercises' the pack enough to warm it slightly.
The 40 kWh packs still use them.
https://parts.nissanusa.com/p/Nissan_2018_Leaf/Heater-Battery/89609108/295U2-3NF1A.htmlDesigned to work in all 40 kWh packs all the way to the 2024 models.
 
It would be so nice if these could just be turned on manually, so we could get a little more range and longevity in cold weather...
It has been discussed here a lot in the past, but the consensus was that the heaters don't provide enough heat to be useful in that way. They work fine at keeping the battery from experiencing freeze damage, but trying to raise the temperature above freezing is done faster by driving on it than waiting hours for the heaters to do it if left running non-stop.
 
I, too have some cold-weather questions:
  1. What are the safe discharge levels to leave my 2015 SV overnight at 0ºF? What is too low, what is too high?
  2. If I leave it plugged into my ClipperCreek 40A Level 2 charger on a timer overnight, will it heat the battery without charging?
  3. If not, should I leave it charging until it tops out, or is leaving it on a timer from 4AM - 6AM OK?
My basic question is what's the best protocol for prolonging my battery's life in the cold. Thanks!
If NOT connected to an EVSE, the battery must be above 30% SOC to use the heaters, otherwise it won't and then expect some freeze damage if the temperature gets down to -40F(-40C) or lower. If you are using an EVSE, leave it plugged in to avoid it using the battery instead of the EVSE power. The battery heaters kick in early so it has a head start on warming and to get the driver some range to work with. If the Leaf is below 30% SOC but the temperature never drops low enough to cause damage, your battery will be so cold, you would be driving around in turtle mode everywhere because the BMS would limit the "output" power of the battery to avoid cold damage. By your example of 0F, I would be plugging in to try and reach 100% SOC since you will know that the battery warmer is going to be leeching power the whole time in that tempeature. It depends on if you plan on using it that day or if you will be waiting days before use. Having it start at 100% SOC can give you days of "warming" power, but you still have to be mindful of that 30% limit where the battery heaters will no longer activate. So there really isn't so much a too low temperature, but there is certainly a too high temperature, but that's more in the "warm" weather range than temperatures get above 70F.

The battery warmer works "independent" of the rest of the Leaf and is powered by the internal 360V battery, so having it plugged in or not, it will run to keep the battery warm. Just have to remember it's a background power leech, so when the Leaf decides to "charge", it has to make up for that extra missing power it was using, making it have longer charge times and added energy usage that you can see on the EVSE that records those kind of things for the owner.

The battery will take care of itself, but charging creates additional waste heat, which is a benefit in cold weather, thus the battery warmer may not be used as much or if at all. The battery warmer serves two functions, keep the battery warm enough to be driveable and to protect the battery. If the battery warmer did not exist but the temperature never got close enough to damage the battery, you would still have an issue of power. Say the battery was allowed to drop to -20F because of no heater. It woldn't damage the battery, but the safe power draw would be so low as to be not usable to drive with if the battery can only put out 1,000 watts for example. That's basically like trying to drive around in "creep" mode everywhere, lol. 🤣
You would have to warm it up to be about to pull more power safely, so it works both ways. The battery needs to warm enough to both output power and take in power from charging.
 
I haven't got clear answers. When it is as cold as it has been -20F, I set my adjustable charger to 10 amps (longer slower charge) and take it off the charge timer. My reasoning is to allow the battery heaters to pull from the EVSE and not try and charge fast.
What I noticed was it charged, shut off and then did 12 volt charging (3rd light only flashing). If I left it on the timer it would try and charge every night. We aren't going out every day so I hope that it will be not re-starting the traction battery charger, but will maintain the 12 volt and battery heater off the EVSE.
When temps get normal again, I'll go back to my 1.5-2.0hrs of charge at night, with the input current set to 20 or 24 amp.
Even before it reaches that temperature, your battery heater is already at work. Basically, you are lowering the input power so it takes longer to charge, but that doesn't control directly how the battery heater works, it's independent. There is the added benefit that the longer time generates more waste heat, that in cold weather works to your advantage. So in that way, it can reduce the work the battery heater needs to do if the battery is already "warming" itself internally. Think of it like having a space heater in a room with a fireplace. The space heater is set for 60F and you want it to be a toasty 80F, so you build a big roaring fire and the room heats up fast. The space heater cuts off because it's way above 60F and it's not needed anymore. But if you extinguish the fire, the room will start to cool back down until the space heater finally kicks in again at 60F. The fireplace can affect what the space heater does, but is not necessary to control it. The space heater still works independently. Apply that to the battery warmer, it's going to run whether you are charging or not, granted as long as it detects that either the battery is above 30% SOC or power is being feed into the battery from the EVSE.
 
SO, if understand what you are saying. If I leave the EVSE plugged in and the charge timer turned off, the battery warmer will operate as needed and the charger will replace that draw, but if I leave the charge timer on, and the set time has been used it will replace the heater draw until next timer charge set time.
What I am trying to understand, is how exactly the charger works with draws while parked. Does it turn back on after charging cycle is complete but the cord not disconnected when it "sees a draw" or does it do nothing until the cord is removed and then plugged back in? I have not noticed it ever turning back on until the plug is removed and then re inserted (either right a way or after a trip). Then there is the issue of the charge timer, if it is on, it should only charge in the timer perimeters
 
SO, if understand what you are saying. If I leave the EVSE plugged in and the charge timer turned off, the battery warmer will operate as needed and the charger will replace that draw, but if I leave the charge timer on, and the set time has been used it will replace the heater draw until next timer charge set time.
What I am trying to understand, is how exactly the charger works with draws while parked. Does it turn back on after charging cycle is complete but the cord not disconnected when it "sees a draw" or does it do nothing until the cord is removed and then plugged back in? I have not noticed it ever turning back on until the plug is removed and then re inserted (either right a way or after a trip). Then there is the issue of the charge timer, if it is on, it should only charge in the timer perimeters
I believe you got it. The heater is internal to the battery, using the internal 360V to run. It should respect the charging times you have setup. If the EVSE is still connected to the Leaf and no charging timer prevents it, it should be about draw power again for the battery heater. Similar to running climate control with the EVSE still plugged in. That would also mean that the SOC was probably at 100% for that situation (if not limited by a charging timer). The BMS needs the 12V to activate the battery heater, so it does a double-duty of running the DC-DC converter if detects that the 12V battery voltage is low too. I think that is why a lot of people assumed it was using the 12V power for the heater and not the 360V internal.
 
So to cut to the chase, if I want to keep the battery from drawing itself to run the battery heater in extreme cold, than turning off the charge timer and leave it plugged in to the EVSE, is the best way to do that.
I just wasn't clear on the priority given to each variable.
 
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