Battery Replacement Program Details

[evnow]

[Edit: Shouting may not be a nice thing, but compared to lying it rates far down on my scale of things not done. And sometimes shouting is the most appropriate mode of expression]

At this point the answer appears to be 'No'. I'm so glad I didn't buy or lease one of these cars, because I trust Nissan about as far as I trusted Tricky Dick in his heyday.

Relax.

What is the price of a Tesla battery pack today ?

What Nissan is saying is - they conducted a survey and found most people wanted a monthly payment. That is what they have given. You don't like it ? Fine, but you are apparently in a minority.

 

[surfingslovak]

No manufacturer tells you the price of the battery, including Tesla. It would be nice if Nissan did - but they have decided not to (I'd guess for competitive reasons).

While that's true, I believe that GM is a bit better in terms of cost transparency, and it looks like one can purchase a traction battery (or components thereof). We'll see what the future brings, mass-marketed EVs are a new paradigm in many respects.

 

[oxo]

If you only drive your Leaf 100 miles or even 500 miles a month for that matter, is it really cost effective that you must pay $100 for the privilege to do so?

The real solution is for an option of plug in batteries that can be bought from any third party supplier willing to offer them. We can do it with flashlights.

 

[cwerdna]

Thanks to Chelsea for answering some of our questions! It seems like an FAQ is definitely in order. I hope we get some reasonable promise of a FAQ w/answers.

- There will be mileage limits

Mileage limits on a car that a person (not a bank) owns and has presumably paid off?

Nope. Mileage limits on the 2nd battery you're renting from Nissan. (But yes, I hear you...)

Very strange. I wonder what they'll be and wonder how TaylorSFGuy will fare under this.

I can see this being a big hindrance to resale... The new owner has to agree to a $100 higher monthly payment for the life of the car. Good luck with that.

At the end of ownership, the pack does still belong to Nissan. We expect that the program will be transferred to the new owner, who would need to agree as part of any sale to the existing payment terms for continued use and possession of the battery.

Exactly!

I wonder if things will be different between private sales vs. used Leafs sold by Nissan dealers. In other words, if I sold my Leaf w/$100/month leased battery privately, the other guy for sure has to pay the $100/month, otherwise they're left w/a useless car. And, the resale value will probably suck. Who would want that, given some of the leasing deals we've seen?

What happens if I trade in or sell my $100/month leased battery Leaf to some non-Nissan dealer or a used car lot?

If Nissan recovers a car w/$100/month leased battery, could they remove that obligation on that car?

 

[EVDRIVER]

As someone who has been an advocate of offering battery leasing/renting to get the car's purchase price down for a couple of years, I'm glad to see that Nissan is now going to offer it. But we really need clarification for new purchasers/lessors on whether or not the federal tax credit still applies if the battery is rented, as that was supposedly the reason this wasn't offered in the U.S. from the get-go.

That being said, as the vehement objections should make clear not everyone wants to rent a battery. And only warrantying the battery at 70% isn't going to cut it, when Smart is offering 80%. If they're going to stick to 70% as the basic warranty, then Nissan MUST also offer rental plans that offer replacement at higher capacities, at least 80% for the people who need it, at least until battery capacities have increased considerably. Smart is charging $80/month for 17.6kWh, so scaling up proportionally, Nissan should be charging $109.10/month for their 24kWh battery - call it $110.

Finally, I've got to give Nissan zero points (negative points would be more appropriate) as far as honesty. People made it crystal clear that they were asking for a battery price. Nissan said repeatedly that they would announce a battery price, so they can't blame miscommunication. Instead, Nissan pulls a bait and switch and announces something totally different. Regardless of the inherent value of this other offering (which is welcome and IMO overdue), it represents yet another example of Nissan out and out lying to its customers re its batteries.

ISN'T THERE A SINGLE PERSON IN ALL OF NISSAN CORPORATE CAPABLE OF GIVING A STRAIGHT, HONEST ANSWER TO A SIMPLE QUESTION?

[Edit: Shouting may not be a nice thing, but compared to lying it rates far down on my scale of things not done. And sometimes shouting is the most appropriate mode of expression]

At this point the answer appears to be 'No'. I'm so glad I didn't buy or lease one of these cars, because I trust Nissan about as far as I trusted Tricky Dick in his heyday.

Like Mark Perry :lol:

 

[shrink]

No manufacturer tells you the price of the battery, including Tesla. It would be nice if Nissan did - but they have decided not to (I'd guess for competitive reasons).

While taht's true, I believe that GM is a bit better in terms of cost transparency, it looks like one can order a traction battery (or components thereof). We'll see what the future brings, mass-marketed EVs are a new paradigms in many respects.

Looks like a new Volt battery back can be had for less than $3000 (I assume this is a trade in your old battery price):

http://www.newgmparts.com/parts/2011/CHEVROLET/VOLT/?siteid=213815&vehicleid=1447713&section=HYBRID%20COMPONENTS&group=HYBRID%20COMPONENTS&subgroup=BATTERY&component=BATTERY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[JPWhite]

If you buy a new battery outright, the only warranty you will get is whatever is normally offered for replacement parts. Usually, that is 12 months/12k miles in the case of Nissan.

Warranties on 12v batteries for Nissan ICE Vehicles come with a better warranty than 12 month/12,000 miles.

 

[pchilds]

NO PRICE!!! Nissan lied to us again, no surprise!

 

[IBELEAF]

Is that "$100 cost" like their "100 mile range" estimate, but going the other way... I guess this is better then nothing, but I wouldn't go for it, it just feels you owe them for life. Why not just have an end cost?

 

[JPWhite]

Lifetime commitment to pay the battery rental makes no sense. Basically if you stop paying they will leave you a car with no battery! Also, what happens if your pack is damaged in an accident. Is you insurer obliged to continue paying the battery rental forever or will you still be on the hook?

This certainly is another detail Nissan will have to figure out and explain - inquiring minds need to know. Fortunately for them any accident severe enough to require a replacement battery pack will probably be a total loss anyhow.

 

[thankyouOB]

Reality is that running a car costs money. It is just a question of whether you want to pay upfront or as you go.

uh, no.
they are NOT giving an "upfront" price for a replacement battery
or hadnt you noticed?????
there is just the grift.

 

[JPWhite]

Exactly. Once you commit to the lease program you are stuck with the car, at $100/month, until it is time to scrap it.

Most leases have an early termination option. One would hope a pro-rated amount would be due depending on how many fleece payments one had made to-date.

It would seem to me this program would appeal to high mileage drivers who had purchased outright and planned to keep the vehcile for a while. Of course high mileage in Pheonix is lower than anywhere else according to Nissan low and Medium mileage customers in hot climates may find this attractive as well.

 

[GRA]

ISN'T THERE A SINGLE PERSON IN ALL OF NISSAN CORPORATE CAPABLE OF GIVING A STRAIGHT, HONEST ANSWER TO A SIMPLE QUESTION?

[Edit: Shouting may not be a nice thing, but compared to lying it rates far down on my scale of things not done. And sometimes shouting is the most appropriate mode of expression]

At this point the answer appears to be 'No'. I'm so glad I didn't buy or lease one of these cars, because I trust Nissan about as far as I trusted Tricky Dick in his heyday.

Like Mark Perry :lol:

Mark Perry gave straight answers, the problem is that his answers were wrong. Whether he believed them to be true or knew that they were false is the question. Whereas with old 'I am Not a Crook', there's no doubt whatsoever which it was. No such issue arises here. Nissan was asked for and promised to give one thing, and then gave another. Whether or not Tesla or any other manufacturer gives a price for their batteries is irrelevant; Nissan promised they were going to, and didn't.

I'm reminded of the professional clown Hugh Romney's (Wavy Gravy for members of the Woodstock generation) campaign slogan when he ran for a seat on the Berkeley City Council a couple of decades back (full disclosure: my company provided solar power for a fundraiser for his Camp Winnarainbow. It poured down rain that day, with very rare thunder and lightning). His slogan was "Let's elect a REAL clown for a change." Nissan's decision makers and communications people give him some serious competition.

 

[JPWhite]

Come to think of it.. I wouldn't be surprised if this lease option weren't offered on new 2014 or 2015 Leafs.. Buy the car and lease the battery..

I agree. They've offered this in Europe which helps get the purchase price of the car down. So if I can get a LEAF S for 19,000 after tax incentives etc, then a car with no battery purchase + lease battery payments may be as low as 12/13K after tax incentives.

 

[davewill]

Come to think of it.. I wouldn't be surprised if this lease option weren't offered on new 2014 or 2015 Leafs.. Buy the car and lease the battery..

I agree. They've offered this in Europe which helps get the purchase price of the car down. So if I can get a LEAF S for 19,000 after tax incentives etc, then a car with no battery purchase + lease battery payments may be as low as 12/13K after tax incentives.

They have to figure out how to finesse the tax break, which is based on the size of the battery in the car. No battery no tax break. I would think that leasing them together to start would be the way to handle that.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Reality is that running a car costs money. It is just a question of whether you want to pay upfront or as you go.

I'm afraid a lot of people never thought about the depreciation of the battery. Now we have a figure for that depreciation - $100/month.

We can now calculate TCO properly and compare to ICE.

Truth.

Archie Bunker once said "You can't buy beer, you can only rent it"

For all practical purposes, cars have a service life, so in a sense you can never really own them. I just traded in a twelve year old car that cost $28k and was worth maybe $3k at the end. I paid cash for the car when I bought it, so in a sense it felt like I owned it free and clear, but in reality it was costing a couple grand a year over those 12 years.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

I agree. They've offered this in Europe which helps get the purchase price of the car down. So if I can get a LEAF S for 19,000 after tax incentives etc, then a car with no battery purchase + lease battery payments may be as low as 12/13K after tax incentives.

What happens at the end of the battery lease in Europe?

 

[cwerdna]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but ABG and GCR have this coverage on the plan. There isn't much new in there if you'd read Chelsea's answers.

http://green.autoblog.com/2013/06/20/nissan-leaf-battery-replacement-will-cost-100-month/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1084937_nissan-to-offer-leaf-battery-replacement-plan-100-a-month" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[thankyouOB]

Brian,
the battery is the car's most costly component, and owners are supposed to surrender this for what?

why not give the driver a choice: offer a lease- and a buy-replacement option?

 

[scottf200]

now, nissan wants to turn owning a leaf into a lifetime monthly tithing, a permanent pass into my bank account.
i say no and a very loud no.

Reality is that running a car costs money. It is just a question of whether you want to pay upfront or as you go.
I'm afraid a lot of people never thought about the depreciation of the battery. Now we have a figure for that depreciation - $100/month.
We can now calculate TCO properly and compare to ICE.

Seems like the cost for miles equivalent (not full TCO) would be something like this.

($100 / $4gas) * 35mpg * 12month = 10,500 mile/yr equivalent

35mpg is for the similar sized Versa (I'm only comparing sizes and not the vehicle or features)
(2013 Nissan Versa 4 cyl, 1.6 L, Automatic (variable gear ratios), Regular Gasoline
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/2013_Nissan_Versa.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )

What happens if you own the car and reach the end of the battery lease? Do they repossess the battery? Can you buy a battery?

It was stated to think of it more in terms of a rental than a lease per Chelsea Sexton. So not sure that "end of the battery lease" applies.

...- In its current form, this is more of a battery rental than a lease. The latter implies a buy-out option at some point, and the current program exists in perpetuity [perpetual - no end]. ...

From the Nissan representative ... Nissan owns it and it belongs to them.

... At the end of ownership, the pack does still belong to Nissan. We expect that the program will be transferred to the new owner, who would need to agree as part of any sale to the existing payment terms for continued use and possession of the battery. ...