smkettner said:I am far more pleased with paying $5,000 now if I choose and $3,000 later if I again choose.
$100 per month for as long as I want to drive the car, not happy at all.
No, I was thinking just the opposite, credits are given to manufacturers for new vehicles when they are originally sold, not for vehicles that are resold, regardless of whether the cars are resold at dealers or by individuals. I don't really know but can only assume, just like the $7500, they don't hand that out every time the car changes hands.Volusiano said:So are you saying that if Nissan takes back a lease and re-lease it again, they would get another gov't regulatory credit to its favor because it would be counted as another sales? So they can get 3 or 4 "sales credit" on the same car if it gets leased 3 or 4 times over its useful life? But on the other hand, if they sell the car, they only get 1 gov't sales credit and that's it, because further resale of the car is done by the owners and is out of Nissan's control?
I've always wondered why Nissan encourages leases over purchases, and if it has to do with the gov't regulatory sales credit, then it'd make a lot of sense over their recent announcement. This latest debacle of their "Steal-Your-LEAF-battery" plan is then just another ploy by Nissan to kill any chance of further LEAF purchases to push people over to LEAF leases only.
OT: Any word on whether they need to bump up that number on account of the lawn mower engine settlement?Valdemar said:They planned to sell 1100 of them over the course of 2 years.
="DaveinOlyWA"...how would you feel buying a replacement pack for $5,000 today knowing that in certain areas you will only have 75% of that capacity in 3 years and before paying that battery off on your 3 year payment plan at $150 a month, Nissan comes out with a battery with better chemistry that is expected to retain 90% of its capacity after 5 years in Phoenix and are selling it for $3,000?
="DaveinOlyWA"
...another thing to keep in mind is that 3rd party vendors only exists because there is a market. If Nissan wont sell battery packs outright, someone will
LTLFTcomposite said:OT: Any word on whether they need to bump up that number on account of the lawn mower engine settlement?Valdemar said:They planned to sell 1100 of them over the course of 2 years.
DaveinOlyWA said:another thing to keep in mind is that 3rd party vendors only exists because there is a market. If Nissan wont sell battery packs outright, someone will
Nubo said:...It's almost as if they intended the LEAF to be a disposable car. And that's what bothers me.
I think there is or will be a lot of value in the old batteries even after newer improved battery technology comes to market. First life is in our cars. Second life is the best individual cells from multiple packs reassembled into remanufactured packs; Nissan is best positioned to do this. Third life is in various stationary uses, for which Nissan has no expertise. Fourth life is as a cheaper source of Lithium than mining. The Luskin School has some information on the economics of secondary uses of batteries: http://luskin.ucla.edu/evLTLFTcomposite said:People keep referring to this notion the the used pack/modules has value and Nissan should be giving some trade in value for it. I'm not seeing that, nobody is going to want a used battery to make a car that was only going 15 miles go 20, people in that economic strata will be buying used kias. As for the solar storage angle Nissan isn't in that business, and I doubt they want to get into it just to unload used car parts as a free service, not to mention the whole product liability can of worms that opens.
Don't get me wrong I think there are a lot of great ideas in this area. But Nissan is under the gun to ramp up Infiniti to 500k units annually, things like this are really just a distraction. Plus you know how big companies work, all it takes is one lawyer saying somebody gets hurt or their property damaged by such a system and the ambulance chasers will be coming after Nissan too, and the execs will say hold on here, we aren't going to make enough on this to make it worth the risk and bother.walterbays said:I think there is or will be a lot of value in the old batteries...
KJD said:Why the hell would I want to spend $100. a month on a 10 year old car ?DaveinOlyWA said:no mileage limitations, no time limitations. you can enter the lease program at 3 years and 50,000 miles or 10 years and 200,000 miles. In either case, you will get a lease battery with 12 bar capacity and most likely with a chemistry more robust than the OEM battery you replace.Valdemar said:Brian, is it possible at this point you can outline the payment structure with regards to annual mileage? Or at least tell us how many annual miles will be allowed under the announced $100/month plan?
If I wanted a permanent car payment I would just lease the entire car for less than $200. a month and get a new battery pack every 24 months.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=11245" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I have no need for a car with only 9 capacity bars.
Too bad for Nissan, they are passing up on a huge market. At least one other EV company does think it is worth doing.LTLFTcomposite said:Don't get me wrong I think there are a lot of great ideas in this area. But Nissan is under the gun to ramp up Infiniti to 500k units annually, things like this are really just a distraction. Plus you know how big companies work, all it takes is one lawyer saying somebody gets hurt or their property damaged by such a system and the ambulance chasers will be coming after Nissan too, and the execs will say hold on here, we aren't going to make enough on this to make it worth the risk and bother.walterbays said:I think there is or will be a lot of value in the old batteries...
http://www.solarcity.com/residential/energy-storage.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;SolarCity is making the latest advancements in battery technologies available to you through our partnership with Tesla Motors.
I would have to agree. Personally, I don't take this battery announcement as lack of goodwill, quite the opposite. That said, I do believe that it could and should have been approached more thoughtfully. This could be potentially the result of taking ill advice from someone who doesn't fully understand the role of early adopters and the paradigm shift EVs represent. While it should be clear that no company would like to hurt its market chances by deliberately offending its customer base, a single buyer of a mass-marketed product often does not have much of a voice. Although that reality might ring true, I think it's appreciated when a large corporation finds a way to give the impression of a more personalized and nuanced approach. And when it comes to new and important products, an enthusiastic customer base can help accelerate their adoption and help ensure overall success. I think that's something Apple has understood particularly well.LTLFTcomposite said:Plus you know how big companies work, all it takes is one lawyer saying somebody gets hurt or their property damaged by such a system and the ambulance chasers will be coming after Nissan too, and the execs will say hold on here, we aren't going to make enough on this to make it worth the risk and bother.
Agreed.KJD said:Too bad for Nissan, they are passing up on a huge market. At least one other EV company does think it is worth doing.
SolarCity is making the latest advancements in battery technologies available to you through our partnership with Tesla Motors.
http://www.solarcity.com/residential/energy-storage.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The issue is not the number as much as a lack of a number.jhm614 said:smkettner said:I am far more pleased with paying $5,000 now if I choose and $3,000 later if I again choose.
$100 per month for as long as I want to drive the car, not happy at all.
I think the problem might be that the price isn't 5K now.
ERG4ALL said:In case Brian is reading all of this, here's my two cents.
One problem is that people who purchased their LEAFs also purchased a battery and as I read it there is no provision for receiving any value for that. Second, Brian wrote:
We have some work to do to more clearly explain the program on some levels
This somewhat inflames the issue by indicating that the problem is in the explanation rather than the program itself.
I think the $5k was an option for the Smart car lease. But how much more could LEAF battery be?mwalsh said:Wow! This thread is overwhelming me.
Did I just read something attributed to Mr. Brockman a few pages ago (and I am paraphrasing here) - $100 a month as long as you want to be a part of the program or you can buy out at any time for the residual cost of the $5000 pack purchase price. I did read that, right? It's not a product of my bleary eyed imagination?
So that's the replacement cost of the pack then - $5000? Or you can stay in as long as you want paying the $100 monthly and get pack upgrades and fresh packs whenever you want?
I really think we need a cliff notes version of the program. Because I think we're all seeing different things.
DaveinOlyWA said:In either case, you will get a lease battery with 12 bar capacity and most likely with a chemistry more robust than the OEM battery you replace.
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