LTLFTcomposite
Well-known member
So all it takes is a congressman from Pennsylvania to introduce a bill then it becomes law? I thought the process was a bit lengthier.
That's so screamingly backwards; why ever does Mr. Kelly imagine incentives are offered, if not to encourage people who wouldn't otherwise take some action? It's stuff the public is clamoring for, like billboard-sized flatscreen TVs, McWhoppers, and Suburmmers that you wouldn't want to incentivize.thankyouOB said:Republican Congressman Mike Kelly represents Pennsylvania's 3rd congressional district. Kelly's bill, H.R. 3768, cites a "lack of mainstream market demand" as the main reason for canceling the credit.
Levenkay said:That's so screamingly backwards; why ever does Mr. Kelly imagine incentives are offered, if not to encourage people who wouldn't otherwise take some action? It's stuff the public is clamoring for, like billboard-sized flatscreen TVs, McWhoppers, and Suburmmers that you wouldn't want to incentivize.thankyouOB said:Republican Congressman Mike Kelly represents Pennsylvania's 3rd congressional district. Kelly's bill, H.R. 3768, cites a "lack of mainstream market demand" as the main reason for canceling the credit.
Besides, if Mr.Kelly is right and nobody's taking the government's offer, what's it costing?
clifsmith said:The LEAF I test drove over 2 weeks ago is STILL available and they discounted it even more. They have all 4 leafs still sitting. This appears to be an indicator that demand here in Texas is not good. Good for buyers now, but if this demand is an indication of what is to come....after the early adopters play out, then we may have a problem on our hands, maybe another EV1 scenario?
These cars are simply not priced for the masses right now. It does not make sense to go drop $35k on a car when you can get many compacts that get 40mpg for 1/2 the price. Just bad economics at current fuel price levels. The price of gas needs to go up considerably to push people into these. If this price of gas does not go up to bring people to EVs, then ultimately EVs will fail. But I would bank on the price of gas going up. I am sure the Mfrs expect this as well or they would not be dropping billions into this. I really pray that the cost/benefit comes together soon so that we can get off these Dino burners and that the MFRs can hold out for demand to pick up. I really think Nissan made a huge mistake raising the MSRP by almost $3k on the 2012 model, just to add $1500 in options (quick charge + cold weather pkg). In Texas we don't need the cold weather pkg. Really these EVs need to be priced around $30k BEFORE the credit to get people to convert. The VOLT....waaaaay overpriced. They will fail.
True, but people still buy all kinds of $30,000+ cars that do not make sense. Fiscally, new car purchases almost never make sense. On a smaller scale, expensive gadgets like the iPhone don't make fiscal sense for a large number of people; I'm always surprised at the number of people I see who are on the brink of poverty and carrying around the fanciest phones. I think people need to see that it is very cool to drive an EV. Electric drivetrains do have some very nice attributes.clifsmith said:These cars are simply not priced for the masses right now. It does not make sense to go drop $35k on a car when you can get many compacts that get 40mpg for 1/2 the price.
This is likely, but by no means a given. Because of the higher cost of extracting from oil sands, shale oil, etc., coupled with greater demand in Asia, I don't see prices going down significantly. But there might also be enough supply of the aforementioned dirty sources of oil to keep prices from going up a great deal.clifsmith said:But I would bank on the price of gas going up.
LTLFTcomposite said:and a lot of folks still need to be convinced.
clifsmith said:The LEAF I test drove over 2 weeks ago is STILL available and they discounted it even more. They have all 4 leafs still sitting. This appears to be an indicator that demand here in Texas is not good. Good for buyers now, but if this demand is an indication of what is to come....after the early adopters play out, then we may have a problem on our hands, maybe another EV1 scenario?
These cars are simply not priced for the masses right now. It does not make sense to go drop $35k on a car when you can get many compacts that get 40mpg for 1/2 the price. Just bad economics at current fuel price levels. The price of gas needs to go up considerably to push people into these. If this price of gas does not go up to bring people to EVs, then ultimately EVs will fail. But I would bank on the price of gas going up. I am sure the Mfrs expect this as well or they would not be dropping billions into this. I really pray that the cost/benefit comes together soon so that we can get off these Dino burners and that the MFRs can hold out for demand to pick up. I really think Nissan made a huge mistake raising the MSRP by almost $3k on the 2012 model, just to add $1500 in options (quick charge + cold weather pkg). In Texas we don't need the cold weather pkg. Really these EVs need to be priced around $30k BEFORE the credit to get people to convert. The VOLT....waaaaay overpriced. They will fail.
GaslessInSeattle said:people make their purchase decisions on extreme scenarios and what if's.
LTLFTcomposite said:GaslessInSeattle said:people make their purchase decisions on extreme scenarios and what if's.
Oh but what if I want to drive cross country?
In 30 years I've had probably eight different cars, maybe four more or so jointly with my wife, almost lost count. One thing I haven't lost count of though is the number of times I've driven cross country: Three. In 30 years. All of were times I needed to move a car and could have probably shipped it just as easily.
clifsmith said:These cars are simply not priced for the masses right now. It does not make sense to go drop $35k on a car when you can get many compacts that get 40mpg for 1/2 the price. Just bad economics at current fuel price levels. The price of gas needs to go up considerably to push people into these. If this price of gas does not go up to bring people to EVs, then ultimately EVs will fail. But I would bank on the price of gas going up. I am sure the Mfrs expect this as well or they would not be dropping billions into this. I really pray that the cost/benefit comes together soon so that we can get off these Dino burners and that the MFRs can hold out for demand to pick up. I really think Nissan made a huge mistake raising the MSRP by almost $3k on the 2012 model, just to add $1500 in options (quick charge + cold weather pkg). In Texas we don't need the cold weather pkg. Really these EVs need to be priced around $30k BEFORE the credit to get people to convert. The VOLT....waaaaay overpriced. They will fail.
GaslessInSeattle said:For a lot of people, one's car reflects a deep sense of personal identity. People get very wrapped up in it, it's like the car is a symbol, an extension, of one's own virility... people want a car that makes them feel limitless.
Okay, so as someone who's decided to wait for the 2014 model, a silly question maybe... any info (or speculation) about what the buying process will be like then?EdmondLeaf said:
clifsmith said:Folks, I am really PRO EV, but the timing needs to be good and make financial sense. So me not buying now is not a statement that I am not interested in going green. I pray that this country is completely off foreign oil within a decade. It is currently the Achilles heel of the US. We are so vulnerable and if we were all driving EVs that would essentially get us off foreign oil. I want a leaf really bad now and still have not completely ruled out a demo or orphan 2011. But May 2014 is when I will lose (if I wait to buy leaf) my current 2011 Scion XB to my daughter and the timing should be excellent to get a decent deal on a improved 2014 model. I am really hoping the price will fall to around $30k (before credit) with 120 mile range and the tax credit will still be available.
planetf1 said:my "guilt" is probably more at disposing of a properly working reliable car that I own and so is fully depreciated
Or just sell the old car, let someone else benefit from it, and rent on those infrequent occasions when you choose to take trips. There is no guilt in that; your old car will not go to waste, and your overall, long-term impact on the planet will be lessened.LTLFTcomposite said:You can always keep the old car for longer trips, since you may not get much for it anyway.planetf1 said:my "guilt" is probably more at disposing of a properly working reliable car that I own and so is fully depreciated
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