Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[Stoaty]

Looks like Nissan is circling the wagons. Good protection from a lawsuit (perhaps) but not good for customer satisfaction or future sales. They don't even mention the "software bug" or "faulty instrumentation" that was bandied about earlier. The bottom line appears to be that they expected this level of capacity loss, but didn't properly inform the customers, who thus were not expecting it. They better have a dynamite 2013 model waiting in the wings or the Leaf is going to be in trouble.

 

[dsh]

Does anyone know if the 2013 battery will be compatible with 2011 and 2012 LEAF's? Does the fact that the 2013 model will have the 6.6-kilowatt onboard charger disqualify the 2011 and 2012 models from using the 2013 battery pack?

Looks like Nissan is circling the wagons. Good protection from a lawsuit (perhaps) but not good for customer satisfaction or future sales. They don't even mention the "software bug" or "faulty instrumentation" that was bandied about earlier. The bottom line appears to be that they expected this level of capacity loss, but didn't properly inform the customers, who thus were not expecting it. They better have a dynamite 2013 model waiting in the wings or the Leaf is going to be in trouble.

 

[TomT]

The charger has nothing to do with the battery pack per se. You could use either size charger on any pack.

Does anyone know if the 2013 battery will be compatible with 2011 and 2012 LEAF's? Does the fact that the 2013 model will have the 6.6-kilowatt onboard charger disqualify the 2011 and 2012 models from using the 2013 battery pack?

 

[SanDust]

Mark Perry's report just seems like more dissembling. Basically he's saying that the estimates for battery life are based on an owner driving 10K miles a year on the LA4 drive cycle because that's how Nissan tested the car. That's OK but the average US driver puts 15K miles a year on a car and drives more on US06 than on LA4.

It would seem that (1) Nissan knew or at least should have known how cars are driven in the US and for how many miles they would be driven; and (2) it would have used this information when communicating to prospective customers in the US the expected years to 20% capacity loss.

The line about not being able to comment on the range tests because they weren't there is annoying. No doubt they could attended the test had they asked or shown up, the location wasn't exactly a secret. And it's equally true that the Leaf owners who participated in the range testes weren't present when Nissan did its test, so what does this prove?

 

[Herm]

Today, National Plug In Day, would be the perfect day for GM to announce their no-questions-asked Leaf trade in program... to be applied to a Volt, of course

 

[TonyWilliams]

Today, National Plug In Day, would be the perfect day for GM to announce their no-questions-asked Leaf trade in program... to be applied to a Volt, of course

You are one waskally wabbit !!!

 

[downeykp]

Today, National Plug In Day, would be the perfect day for GM to announce their no-questions-asked Leaf trade in program... to be applied to a Volt, of course

You are one waskally wabbit !!!

You are a waskally wabbit. I would jump ship in a heartbeat.

 

[jspearman]

Today, National Plug In Day, would be the perfect day for GM to announce their no-questions-asked Leaf trade in program... to be applied to a Volt, of course

That would be a coup for Chevy. I'm well past two bars, so a no-questions asked trade in would be awesome. I guess Nissan has seen how little press coverage this has gotten outside of the EV press and decided to fight a few lawsuits instead of admitting a problem, hoping it goes away with the new chemistry. Sleazy, but will save them a few hundred million in replaced packs. Lawyers get a new Mercedes and down payment on house in Malibu.

 

[dsh]

Stoaty,

You hit the nail on the head with your statement:

"The bottom line appears to be that they expected this level of capacity loss, but didn't properly inform the customers, who thus were not expecting it."...

That is the basis for the class action lawsuit for AZ and CA LEAF owners(See Below Links)

http://nissanleafproblems.com/
http://www.initiativelegal.com/

Also, check out this Blog Post from Battery Maker A123 Systems (click on the first hyperlink 'discussions'):
http://info.a123systems.com/blog/bid/151453/Calendar-Life-Modeling-in-Lithium-Ion-Batteries
And this one...
http://www.a123systems.com/93f6a479...815/media-room-2012-press-releases-detail.htm

Looks like Nissan is circling the wagons. Good protection from a lawsuit (perhaps) but not good for customer satisfaction or future sales. They don't even mention the "software bug" or "faulty instrumentation" that was bandied about earlier. The bottom line appears to be that they expected this level of capacity loss, but didn't properly inform the customers, who thus were not expecting it. They better have a dynamite 2013 model waiting in the wings or the Leaf is going to be in trouble.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Today, National Plug In Day, would be the perfect day for GM to announce their no-questions-asked Leaf trade in program... to be applied to a Volt, of course

That would be a coup for Chevy. I'm well past two bars, so a no-questions asked trade in would be awesome. I guess Nissan has seen how little press coverage this has gotten outside of the EV press and decided to fight a few lawsuits instead of admitting a problem, hoping it goes away with the new chemistry. Sleazy, but will save them a few hundred million in replaced packs. Lawyers get a new Mercedes and down payment on house in Malibu.

interesting on the "no questions asked" aspect of the deal. how much credit would you expect them to give you for your trade?

 

[Herm]

Sleazy, but will save them a few hundred million in replaced packs.

At worst, 450 cars in Arizona, at $5k per that is $2.25 million.. petty cash

 

[RegGuheert]

Also, check out this Blog Post from Battery Maker A123 Systems (click on the first hyperlink 'discussions'):

http://info.a123systems.com/blog/bid/151453/Calendar-Life-Modeling-in-Lithium-Ion-Batteries

Excellent article! Thank you for that link!

 

[theaveng]

At worst, 450 cars in Arizona, at $5k per that is $2.25 million.. petty cash

You start with a few and soon you have thousands. That's what happened with Honda & Toyota. They started with free battery replacements for a few dozen owners that had early problems, then word spread to other drivers. The companies got sued, and now they are replacing almost all the batteries (any 2-door insight that has battery problems within 160,000 miles) (also Prius version 1 but I don't know the mileage). Nissan's probably trying to avoid Honda & Toyota's free battery program.

 

[cwerdna]

At worst, 450 cars in Arizona, at $5k per that is $2.25 million.. petty cash

You start with a few and soon you have thousands. That's what happened with Honda & Toyota. They started with free battery replacements for a few dozen owners that had early problems, then word spread to other drivers. The companies got sued, and now they are replacing almost all the batteries (any 2-door insight that has battery problems within 160,000 miles) (also Prius version 1 but I don't know the mileage). Nissan's probably trying to avoid Honda & Toyota's free battery program.

As a Prius enthusiast and owner since January 06, I'm unaware of any such program for 1st gen Priuses (aka NHW11). The HV battery warranty on those was 8 years/100K miles. On the 2nd gen (NHW20) and beyond (e.g. ZVW30 which is the current liftback), it still is 8 years/100K miles but in CA and CARB states (due to AT-PZEV warranty requirements), it's 10 years/150K miles.

Certain models (e.g. Prius c, Lexus CT) do NOT get a 10 year/150K mile HV battery warranty, even in CARB states. My only guess is that since they didn't exist before w/a 10 year/150K mile HV battery warranty anywhere, no reason to introduce them that way. And, it's a means of cutting costs on the cheaper Prius c.

NHW11 was not certified for AT-PZEV and I'm not even sure the AT-PZEV standard existed when the NHW11 came out.

We do occasionally see reports where an HV battery has failed slightly outside warranty mileage or time and Toyota's willing to cover part of the cost, out of goodwill.

 

[mark1313]

I have not bought my Prius yet,but if GM wants to offer us all a special deal,Im ready to trade in for a Volt and tell Nissan to screw off for the rest of my life..

Today, National Plug In Day, would be the perfect day for GM to announce their no-questions-asked Leaf trade in program... to be applied to a Volt, of course

 

[TomT]

If GM did, I'd take it.

I have not bought my Prius yet,but if GM wants to offer us all a special deal,Im ready to trade in for a Volt and tell Nissan to screw off for the rest of my life..

Today, National Plug In Day, would be the perfect day for GM to announce their no-questions-asked Leaf trade in program... to be applied to a Volt, of course

 

[downeykp]

If GM did, I'd take it.

I have not bought my Prius yet,but if GM wants to offer us all a special deal,Im ready to trade in for a Volt and tell Nissan to screw off for the rest of my life..quote="Herm"]Today, National Plug In Day, would be the perfect day for GM to announce their no-questions-asked Leaf trade in program... to be applied to a Volt, of course

[/quote]

Wow you guys are really pileing on.
I would also take it.

 

[MrIanB]

If payment same or lower, no out of pocket money and 24 month lease, I will too. I am leasing my leaf and have 30 months to go and have as of today no loss of battery bars, will do it to avoid impending loss as it appears no one's battery may last the full 39 months without any degradation. Unless Nissan will do something about them sooner than later.

Ian B

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

If payment same or lower, no out of pocket money and 24 month lease, I will too. I am leasing my leaf and have 30 months to go and have as of today no loss of battery bars, will do it to avoid impending loss as it appears no one's battery may last the full 39 months without any degradation. Unless Nissan will do something about them sooner than later.

Ian B

dont have to trade anything in for that deal

 

[MrIanB]

If payment same or lower, no out of pocket money and 24 month lease, I will too. I am leasing my leaf and have 30 months to go and have as of today no loss of battery bars, will do it to avoid impending loss as it appears no one's battery may last the full 39 months without any degradation. Unless Nissan will do something about them sooner than later.

Ian B

dont have to trade anything in for that deal[/quote

Explain what you mean please.

Thanks,

Ian B