Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[DesertDenizen]

Let's see how long it takes you to spot the deceit in this Leaf ad... (SPOILER - Related to the amount of SOC remaining.)

I don't see it?

There are maybe 8 SOC bars showing, with GOM indicating 132 miles left until depleted. In my dreams.

 

[GRA]

3. Portland, OR is more "ideal" than the SF Bay area.

It's probably a combination of #1 & #2. However given the number of friends moving up from the Bay area recently, I am inclined to believe it's actually #3.;-)

The "SF Bay area" has a rather wide range of climates. I can't find a convenient temperature map but you can get an idea from the solar radiation map -- keeping in mind the significant temperature moderation effect of the prevailing ocean breezes near the open ocean. I find that people in the blue-to-yellow zone on this map (south of Golden Gate Bridge) tend to think of the "Bay Area" as strictly the blue-to-yellow zone, south of the Golden Gate bridge.

To be more precise, those of us who live in coastal parts (Bay or Ocean) of Marin, San Mateo, Alameda and Contra Costa counties as well as all of San Francisco live in a very temperate climate - we've got Ma Nature's heat sink to keep our temps moderate. Santa Clara county, as well as Alameda and Contra Costa counties east of the hills, plus parts of Napa and Solano counties experience much larger temperature extremes.

 

[spooka]

Let's see how long it takes you to spot the deceit in this Leaf ad... (SPOILER - Related to the amount of SOC remaining.)

I don't see it?

There are maybe 8 SOC bars showing, with GOM indicating 132 miles left until depleted. In my dreams.

BINGO! They are advertising 132 miles of range at a dealership here in Phoenix. Today, right now! Even after everything that has been going on for the last 6 months. I'd say "Can you believe it?" but I know better.

http://www.peorianissan.com/leaf-zero-down-offer.htm

 

[opossum]

And that's a crazy current draw for a car going 0 mph! That 132 won't stay long!

 

[DarkDave]

Let's see how long it takes you to spot the deceit in this Leaf ad... (SPOILER - Related to the amount of SOC remaining.)

I don't see it?

There are maybe 8 SOC bars showing, with GOM indicating 132 miles left until depleted. In my dreams.

I wonder if it's taken from early Japanese Leaf marketing materials. That number makes more sense if it's in km and not miles: 132 km = 82 miles. But even 82 miles on 8 bars is still high.

 

[Stoaty]

BINGO! They are advertising 132 miles of range at a dealership here in Phoenix. Today, right now! Even after everything that has been going on for the last 6 months. I'd say "Can you believe it?" but I know better.

http://www.peorianissan.com/leaf-zero-down-offer.htm

That link only says range of "over 100 miles". The dash showing 132 miles is no longer clickable, and almost impossible to read. Still, not many people can get "over 100 miles", you basically have to drive like an old lady. They should be advertising the EPA range; it should be illegal to advertise anything higher.

 

[JPWhite]

Let's see how long it takes you to spot the deceit in this Leaf ad... (SPOILER - Related to the amount of SOC remaining.)

I don't see it?

There are maybe 8 SOC bars showing, with GOM indicating 132 miles left until depleted. In my dreams.

Looks like its reading Kiliomemters not miles to me. But that could be considered misleading given the market its being advertised in.

 

[spooka]

When they say Nissan will be doing a buy back due to lemon law, what exactly is Nissan paying?

The Arizona lemon law sets out the following amounts that a manufacturer must pay
when it repurchases a motor vehicle under the lemon law:
1. The motor vehicle’s full purchase price; and
2. All collateral charges associated with the purchase, including taxes attributed to the
sale of the vehicle;
3. Less a reasonable allowance for the consumer’s use of the vehicle.
Refunds must be made to the consumer and lienholder, if any, as their interests may
appear.
The reasonable allowance for use is that amount directly attributable to use by the
consumer before the first written report of the nonconformity to the manufacturer, its
agent or dealer, and during any subsequent period when the vehicle is not out of service
by reason of repair.

*The average LEAF owner will get the price of the car as defined above minus an average of about $5,000 due to use.

Are they paying for the months left on a lease?

The lemon law does not cover lessees.

Are they giving any down payment money on that same lease back?

The lemon law does not cover lessees.

What are they paying if the car is being purchased? The payoff? What happens if there is any equity or inequity for those that are purchasing?

It is a standard formula as mentioned above.

Hope this helps.

 

[DesertDenizen]

Looks like its reading Kiliomemters not miles to me. But that could be considered misleading given the market its being advertised in.

If so it would be 82 miles with 8 SOC bars left. I would take that in a heart beat.

 

[surfingslovak]

3. Portland, OR is more "ideal" than the SF Bay area.

It's probably a combination of #1 & #2. However given the number of friends moving up from the Bay area recently, I am inclined to believe it's actually #3.;-)

The "SF Bay area" has a rather wide range of climates. I can't find a convenient temperature map but you can get an idea from the solar radiation map -- keeping in mind the significant temperature moderation effect of the prevailing ocean breezes near the open ocean. I find that people in the blue-to-yellow zone on this map (south of Golden Gate Bridge) tend to think of the "Bay Area" as strictly the blue-to-yellow zone, south of the Golden Gate bridge.

To be more precise, those of us who live in coastal parts (Bay or Ocean) of Marin, San Mateo, Alameda and Contra Costa counties as well as all of San Francisco live in a very temperate climate - we've got Ma Nature's heat sink to keep our temps moderate. Santa Clara county, as well as Alameda and Contra Costa counties east of the hills, plus parts of Napa and Solano counties experience much larger temperature extremes.

Please consider using WeatherSpark to get more detailed annual temperature profiles for your location. The granularity of that data is constrained by the number of weather stations, but it should be pretty decent, for the Bay Area at least. If you can parse the percentage of time spent in each temperature band, you could use the model derived from Arrhenius Law in this spreadsheet to calculate the effective temperature and aging coefficient relative to 70 F constant temperature.

 

[smkettner]

Let's see how long it takes you to spot the deceit in this Leaf ad... (SPOILER - Related to the amount of SOC remaining.)

I don't see it?

There are maybe 8 SOC bars showing, with GOM indicating 132 miles left until depleted. In my dreams.

Looks like just 11 capacity bars showing to me.

 

[GRA]

The "SF Bay area" has a rather wide range of climates. I can't find a convenient temperature map but you can get an idea from the solar radiation map -- keeping in mind the significant temperature moderation effect of the prevailing ocean breezes near the open ocean. I find that people in the blue-to-yellow zone on this map (south of Golden Gate Bridge) tend to think of the "Bay Area" as strictly the blue-to-yellow zone, south of the Golden Gate bridge.

To be more precise, those of us who live in coastal parts (Bay or Ocean) of Marin, San Mateo, Alameda and Contra Costa counties as well as all of San Francisco live in a very temperate climate - we've got Ma Nature's heat sink to keep our temps moderate. Santa Clara county, as well as Alameda and Contra Costa counties east of the hills, plus parts of Napa and Solano counties experience much larger temperature extremes.

Please consider using WeatherSpark to get more detailed annual temperature profiles for your location. The granularity of that data is constrained by the number of weather stations, but it should be pretty decent, for the Bay Area at least. If you can parse the percentage of time spent in each temperature band, you could use the model derived from Arrhenius Law in this spreadsheet to calculate the effective temperature and aging coefficient relative to 70 F constant temperature.

Here's the summary for my little burg along the eastern shore of the bay: "Over the course of a year, the temperature typically varies from 42°F to 75°F and is rarely below 36°F or above 85°F."

And here's what it is about 10-15 miles due east, east of the hills and not on the bay:

"Over the course of a year, the temperature typically varies from 38°F to 87°F and is rarely below 30°F or above 98°F."

These don't represent the extremes.

 

[GRA]

Deleted duplicate post.

 

[surfingslovak]

Here's the summary for my little burg along the eastern shore of the bay: "Over the course of a year, the temperature typically varies from 42°F to 75°F and is rarely below 36°F or above 85°F."

And here's what it is about 10-15 miles due east, east of the hills and not on the bay:

"Over the course of a year, the temperature typically varies from 38°F to 87°F and is rarely below 30°F or above 98°F."

These don't represent the extremes.

Thanks for the data, this is great. However, based on what we know and some of the work that has been done to model this better, the extremes are not very interesting, except when they are outside of the allowed operational range of the battery. What is important however, is the amount of time spent in particular temperature bands over the course of the year. This allows you to compute the speed of aging relative to 70 F and determine the overall aging factor for the climate in question.

 

[jspearman]

Hooray for page 400!

 

[surfingslovak]

Hooray for page 400!

And 3,995 posts. Incredible.

 

[azdre]

I know it's been done... But ... 400!! Wow!

 

[TonyWilliams]

I called the dealer in with the advertisement, and talked to him about it.

I think he got the message, which was that there are currently both filed and pending lawsuits over claims of mileage on the LEAF, and if he wanted to make sure his dealership was excluded from these, it might be wise to just advertise the EPA 73 mile range.

 

[EVDrive]

Given proper disclosure I think it is still a great choice for many Phoenix valley residents.

So... Nissan served Kool-Aid at your meeting, eh? :lol:

:lol: I admit, I drank the Kool-Aid before I even got my Leaf. My enthusiams has been dampened, for sure, but I am still a fan.

Still a fan here as well. Just not a car for everyone yet...

 

[spooka]

Originally posted by Randy on wiltingleaf.com.

http://www.topclassactions.com/laws...nissan-leaf-battery-life-class-action-lawsuit

I now predict the LEAF's demise. Not the way I wanted this to go down...



Nissan Leaf Battery Life Class Action Lawsuit

By Mike Holter


Nissan Leaf
A federal class action lawsuit accuses Nissan of concealing that its Leaf vehicles have a design defect that causes them to prematurely lose battery life and driving range.

California Plaintiff Humberto Klee says Nissan advertises the Leaf’s driving range at 100 miles or less, depending on a number of variables such as road conditions and the weather. What Nissan doesn’t disclose in its advertising, however, is that the advertised driving range is based on the vehicle’s performance only after charging the battery to 100% capacity – which Nissan tells owners not to do because it could cause battery damage, the Nissan Leaf class action lawsuit says.

“Before purchase or lease, Nissan failed to disclose its own recommendations that owners avoid charging the battery beyond 80% in order to mitigate battery damage and failed to disclose that Nissan’s estimated 100 mile range was based on a full charge battery, which is contrary to Nissan’s own recommendation for battery charging,” the Nissan Leaf battery class action lawsuit says.

“Consumers thus were misled by Nissan’s representations regarding driving range without being aware that these ranges were only achievable by charging the battery in a manner contrary to Nissan’s own guidance.”

Nissan also failed to disclose and/or intentionally omitted to reveal a design defect in the Leaf’s battery system that causes the Leaf to suffer “widespread, severe and premature loss of driving range, battery capacity and battery life,” the class action lawsuit continues.

The Nissan Leaf class action lawsuit is brought on behalf of a proposed Class of all California and Arizona consumers who purchased or leased any 2011 through 2012 Nissan Leaf vehicle. It is asking, among other things, that Nissan remove and replace Class Members’ battery systems with a suitable alternative product, reform its Leaf battery warranty, cover the loss of battery capacity under warranty, and reimburse Class Members for any repairs made. Klee is alleging violations of California’s Consumer Legal Remedies Act, Arizona’s Consumer Fraud Act and Unfair Business Act, negligent misrepresentation, and breach of Implied Warranty under the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act.