Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[dvlax40]

I think nissan is going to not only have battery issues, but i believe that extended 65+ driving will eventually start to lead to premature motor failures.

Nobody has reported a motor failure in a LEAF; not one. I had the Tesla motor assembly replaced in my 6 month old Rav4 EV, however.

I think the motor will continue to be fine in the LEAF.

if only they would cross license.

 

[RegGuheert]

if only they would cross license.

Tesla uses an induction machine while Nissan uses a synchronous machine. Both are extremely reliable technologies. I think the "motor assembly" in the Tesla designs includes the inverter, so perhaps Tony had a failure in the inverter?

 

[LEAFfan]

Not ignoring the obvious just not trying to let feelings cloud my judgment. never said heat wasnt an issue either, notice where im from? in fact we know heat is an issue because it is an issue for the chemical make up of the battery itself! what i am trying to say, but is apparently lost on emotion, is that we dont have a good idea of HOW bad the degradation is, we just know its there and its faster then average.

Actually, we have a pretty good idea how bad the degradation is. It's all documented in the Wiki, along with a Battery Aging Model that has been shown to be reasonably accurate:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

no, if i do the math if you did 100 miles on 80% (a number i find highly suspect)

and now can only do 65 miles on an 80% charge, that would be a 35% capacity loss (65/100 = .65 1 - 0.65 = 35%).... and this is all a guess based off of anecdotal observations..... its like no ones ever heard of confirmation bias . Some one needs to do a double blind

LOL, you find my 100 miles with an 80% charge highly suspect!? LOLOL...Again, do the math: 17 kW hs (usable at 80%) X 6.0m/kW h = 102 miles. Getting 6.0 is a piece of cake for me. I've done it many, many times.

 

[TonyWilliams]

if only they would cross license.

Tesla uses an induction machine while Nissan uses a synchronous machine. Both are extremely reliable technologies. I think the "motor assembly" in the Tesla designs includes the inverter, so perhaps Tony had a failure in the inverter?

Mine was a gear box, not the actual motor, however, at least one other that I'm aware of has had an inverter failure.

 

[shrink]

[LOL, you find my 100 miles with an 80% charge highly suspect!? LOLOL...Again, do the math: 17 kW hs (usable at 80%) X 6.0m/kW h = 102 miles. Getting 6.0 is a piece of cake for me. I've done it many, many times.[/color]

LEAFfan, save your breath with that poster. Your driving and testing the limits of the LEAF are well known and well respected by the folks with more knowledge and experience here. You have nothing to prove.

I noticed someone added my report earlier to the Wiki. Can someone make a correction for me? Under shrink-842, months of ownership is listed as 24. It should be 11 months and manufacture date was 4/2012.

I haven't filed a complaint because I knew this was coming but I guess I will just to keep Nissan informed.

Just a data point:

2011 LEAF lost a bar at 10,200 miles and 10 months, 15 days of ownership
2012 LEAF lost a bar at 10,800 miles and 11 months, 9 days of ownership

TaylorSF lost the first bar on his 2011 in Washington after 24 months and 78,600 miles.

It's still mind boggling and insulting that Nissan's initial response to the Casa Grande 7 was to call them high mileage cars. :?:

 

[surfingslovak]

Mine was a gear box, not the actual motor, however, at least one other that I'm aware of has had an inverter failure.

Shaft splines on the ActiveE keep wearing out. Although a remedy was supposedly found, I keep wondering if it's due to too much torque and the super strong regen. My car just received a brand new motor after 17K miles and 14 months. I have to agree with Tony: no reports of failed motors from LEAF owners. Moreover, TaylorSFGuy has racked up nearly 80K freeway miles on his LEAF, and has virtually nothing to report, aside from battery capacity loss.

 

[shrink]

Mine was a gear box, not the actual motor, however, at least one other that I'm aware of has had an inverter failure.

Tony, I'm going to get a quote on a 2013 RAV from Dianne this week and see if I can unload the LEAF. With the issues you've had, would you still recommend the RAV?

I can't afford a Model S unless I sell one of my properties and I'm not about to do that.

 

[surfingslovak]

It's still mind boggling and insulting that Nissan's initial response to the Casa Grande 7 was to call them high mileage cars. :?:

Indeed. I have hard time understanding how and why the events in Phoenix have apparently caught Nissan surprised and unprepared. The rationale offered for Phoenix residents was based on 7,500 annual miles, which might correspond to a test protocol representative of Europe or Japan. It's my understanding that the LEAFs tested in Arizona racked up between 30 and 40K miles over a two or three month period. Without wanting to sound presumptuous, I have to wonder what this test protocol is supposed to cover. Some owners drive this type of mileage in two years. It's also evident that nobody has baked the battery in Phoenix. This might have been done in the lab though. Andy mentioned last year that Nissan knows how to model and predict the lifetime performance of these batteries very well.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Mine was a gear box, not the actual motor, however, at least one other that I'm aware of has had an inverter failure.

Tony, I'm going to get a quote on a 2013 RAV from Dianne this week and see if I can unload the LEAF. With the issues you've had, would you still recommend the RAV?

I can't afford a Model S unless I sell one of my properties and I'm not about to do that.

Absolutely, I recommend it. It is a fantastic car with limitations like all cars. No quick charging is my single biggest feature failing. The other problems, they'll fix them. Not once have I had Toyota tell me that my car was "high mileage" or "normal" when I complained. They just keep fixing... 30 cumulative days in the shop so far!!!

Can you make payments on a Tesla Model S ?

 

[dvlax40]

LOL, you find my 100 miles with an 80% charge highly suspect!? LOLOL...Again, do the math: 17 kW hs (usable at 80%) X 6.0m/kW h = 102 miles. Getting 6.0 is a piece of cake for me. I've done it many, many times.

I apologize, 100 is quite impressive, i was under the impression you had highway miles (65 +).



What i really want to see done are some test where we can actually monitor battery temperature as the driving is done to see how speeds + ambiant effect discharge rate/temperature.

 

[JPWhite]

What i really want to see done are some test where we can actually monitor battery temperature as the driving is done to see how speeds + ambiant effect discharge rate/temperature.

Prepare to have your eyes opened.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12098&hilit=battery+app

The LEAF Battery app should have everything you are looking to do. I find it most instructive. It logs data for analysis later. Tracks speed, 4 battery temps. Ambient temp isn't available apparently.

 

[dvlax40]

What i really want to see done are some test where we can actually monitor battery temperature as the driving is done to see how speeds + ambiant effect discharge rate/temperature.

Prepare to have your eyes opened.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12098&hilit=battery+app

The LEAF Battery app should have everything you are looking to do. I find it most instructive. It logs data for analysis later. Tracks speed, 4 battery temps. Ambient temp isn't available apparently.

Interesting, is it only available on android? Seems similar to a product we used to develop parts for Audi and Volkswagen cars called VAG-COM.

Is the source code open ?

 

[Stoaty]

Interesting, is it only available on android? Seems similar to a product we used to develop parts for Audi and Volkswagen cars called VAG-COM.

Is the source code open ?

Only available for Android. You can buy a cheap phone for $40-50 (don't have to activate it to use the app). See my signature for manual.

Written by Turbo3. Source code is not available.

 

[dvlax40]

Interesting, is it only available on android? Seems similar to a product we used to develop parts for Audi and Volkswagen cars called VAG-COM.

Is the source code open ?

Only available for Android. You can buy a cheap phone for $40-50 (don't have to activate it to use the app). See my signature for manual.

Written by Turbo3. Source code is not available.

too bad on the source, would be nice to make a port for laptop use

 

[dvlax40]

Stoaty and jpwhite, thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

I dont know how i missed the CAN-Bus forum!

 

[Weatherman]

I concede defeat.

Maintain a low, average state of charge? Check.
Only charge to 80% or less? Check.
Only charge during the morning when it's "cool"? Check.
Park car outside at night to keep "cool"? Check.
Park car near trees so it gets shade in the afternoon? Check.

All completely worthless.

Lost first capacity bar this morning at only 8,260 miles and 11 months.

For whatever it's worth, I called Nissan and opened a case number (#11353426). South Florida heat doesn't really start to crank up until July and then it lasts through October. If I'm down to 11 bars, now, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to be down to 10 bars by September with less than 12,000 miles on the odometer.

 

[xtremeflyer]

Just lost my second bar this morning. Orange, CA, 29,500 miles. Just over 2 years old. Just had my battery check last Friday and it still showed 11 bars and all 5 stars. It is getting harder and harder to do my 72-76 mile RT commute. Luckily there are now QCs in Hawthorne and Carson.

 

[vrwl]

I concede defeat.

Maintain a low, average state of charge? Check.
Only charge to 80% or less? Check.
Only charge during the morning when it's "cool"? Check.
Park car outside at night to keep "cool"? Check.
Park car near trees so it gets shade in the afternoon? Check.

All completely worthless.

Lost first capacity bar this morning at only 8,260 miles and 11 months.

Unfortunately I think I'm right behind you. My 2011 just hit 6700 miles and according to Turbo3's Battery App, I'm down to 86.76% capacity and it's rapidly declining. I've lost 3% in just the past 6 weeks. What will be an interesting checkpoint is to see if I lose that first bar at the same time the Battery App registers 85%.

 

[DesertDenizen]

I lost my first bar at 6771 miles, so I may end up with the dubious distinction of earliest defilement on record. And I did all the prudent steps weatherman mentioned above. Perhaps they should rename the Leaf to the Temperate. That is where it belongs.

 

[dvlax40]

I lost my first bar at 6771 miles, so I may end up with the dubious distinction of earliest defilement on record. And I did all the prudent steps weatherman mentioned above. Perhaps they should rename the Leaf to the Temperate. That is where it belongs.

I love your sig, capacity anxiety is so true! lol

anyways, im interested to see how my 13 performs this summer... fingers crossed on a silent chemistry change of the battery