tailgate1234
Well-known member
First bar just lost - 27.4k miles. SF Bay Area, and I charge to 80% nearly all the time. Not happy.
Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs
- Thread starter azdre
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So you are getting home with about 7 miles range left, or somewhere between LBW and VLBW on a daily basis now? Are you typically driving 65 mph indicated mostly freeway for your commute?mwalsh said:
Anyway, if one assumes that you used to be able to do 84 miles (same conditions as Tony's range tests), then if you can do 68 miles that is 80% of a new LEAFs range or to be expected if you just lost your 11th bar.
Have you had the P3227 update yet?
I noticed the same thing, though it wasn't apparent until after I got the P3227 update. Haven't noticed any significant behavior since the update 4 months ago and now (and lost a bar during that time).JeremyW said:
Used to always have 5 bubble regen on 80% charge until winter - now only 4 bubble regen until SOC gets down to 60-70% and then the 5th bubble goes on/off until I get down below 50-60% SOC when it seems to pretty much stay on, though available regen still seems to be less than before - typically about 5 kW less if looking at the energy monitor. I also notice more readily that regen capability seems highest between 25-40 mph or so and at higher speeds it seems to go down.
Despite all that, have not seen a noticeable change in efficiency except the first couple miles of my commute, which requires more careful braking to get the same efficiency numbers. I think in general my braking has become smoother to compensate.
Would be interesting to see what 2+ bar losers see with their regen behavior.
scottf200
Well-known member
From one of your other post, it sure sounds like you are driving it hard and fast (ie. 45-50mi @ 100%) or there is something wrong with your battery:tailgate1234 said:
tailgate1234 said:
drees said:
I have seen the same on our old Leaf. It had the P3227 update done back in June. The newer Leaf will need to go to the dealer next week and likely get the P3227. It will be interesting to see how it will behave after that.
bowthom
Well-known member
Hello,
I've been puzzled, Last April after 2 years & 2 months of ownership my Leaf showed 279 GIDs. In Aug it had dropped to 259. End of Sept it was 256. I had the LiBC and OBC reprogramming done 10/2/13. Directly after GIDs ticked up but have now fallen back to 260. The health figure has steadily fallen from 98.5% in April to 86.54% today with a little bump upwards just before the reprogramming on 9/30 to 94.01% when the temps fell.
I don't get how we could do so well for 28 months and then have it drop like a stone. I'll be losing a capacity bar soon.
Don
ON EDIT: The capacity however was 61.23Ah in july and shows 61.60Ah in October but GIDS and Health decline?
I've been puzzled, Last April after 2 years & 2 months of ownership my Leaf showed 279 GIDs. In Aug it had dropped to 259. End of Sept it was 256. I had the LiBC and OBC reprogramming done 10/2/13. Directly after GIDs ticked up but have now fallen back to 260. The health figure has steadily fallen from 98.5% in April to 86.54% today with a little bump upwards just before the reprogramming on 9/30 to 94.01% when the temps fell.
I don't get how we could do so well for 28 months and then have it drop like a stone. I'll be losing a capacity bar soon.
Don
ON EDIT: The capacity however was 61.23Ah in july and shows 61.60Ah in October but GIDS and Health decline?
ColumbiaRiverGorge
Well-known member
Don,
I have accepted my battery loss is mostly related to temperature, calendar time, & miles. I went from 256 gids in June to 231 in September.
I have accepted my battery loss is mostly related to temperature, calendar time, & miles. I went from 256 gids in June to 231 in September.
Stoaty
Well-known member
First capacity bar loss occurs around 55.5 Ah. You aren't anywhere close to losing a capacity bar.bowthom said:
klapauzius
Well-known member
bowthom said:
Exactly the same happened to me.
June was still showing 65 Ah, now dropped to 59.95.
Unless correlated with some "hard" numbers (i.e. charge from turtle to full and then measure AH or kWH) or some range test, I dont see how to make sense of the numbers coming out of the Leaf.
Realistically, some degradation, even in cold climate like PNW, is to be expected.
So maybe the numbers were inflated and are more accurate now...?
Looks like this cold snap we're having is doing a number on me. Arrived at work with 109 (38.7% of) Gids remaining today. That would translate to just 34 careful miles of range left if all was favorable. Well, since the temperatures are still not going to be so favorable this afternoon, I'm afraid that an ideal 34 miles is just too close for comfort. So I'm having to charge for a couple of hours.
And even though it's supposed to warm up again this next week, I'm very much afraid that this is a preview of things to come over the winter.
The conversation with my boss, requesting at least some charging every working day, wasn't supposed to happen for 5 years. Yet here I am at under 3 years having to go cap-in-hand. Not really acceptable.
And even though it's supposed to warm up again this next week, I'm very much afraid that this is a preview of things to come over the winter.
The conversation with my boss, requesting at least some charging every working day, wasn't supposed to happen for 5 years. Yet here I am at under 3 years having to go cap-in-hand. Not really acceptable.
TomT
Well-known member
Yep, welcome to the club! Very disappointing!
mwalsh said:
So it's already round the office that I'll be charging my car at work on pretty much a daily basis from now on (at least until I qualify for a pack replacement under the warranty). Yes, there is some indignity that I'm getting to fuel my car here. And many are assuming it will be for free, while I'm busy pointing out that I'll be paying for the electricity I use (unlike the guys who run personal refrigerators and coffee makers in their offices...but whatever).
I can take all that. What I'm having a hard time with is the scoffing and sniping from those who, for whatever reason, never believed in my EV adventure. It bothers me personally, because I really did evangelize this vehicle and I'm having to eat crow. But it also makes me look like I don't have sound professional judgement, since one of my responsibilities is buying technology for the company.
Frankly, I really ain't happy about being put in this situation so soon.
I can take all that. What I'm having a hard time with is the scoffing and sniping from those who, for whatever reason, never believed in my EV adventure. It bothers me personally, because I really did evangelize this vehicle and I'm having to eat crow. But it also makes me look like I don't have sound professional judgement, since one of my responsibilities is buying technology for the company.
Frankly, I really ain't happy about being put in this situation so soon.
stjohnh
Well-known member
mwalsh said:
Well, you could point out that it wasn't your fault the battery is degrading faster than expected, and yes, for your PERSONAL life, you are a techno-early adopter type, but for your PROFESSIONAL judgement, you are far more conservative (which I hope is true).
I feel your pain. I am pretty much in the same boat, except I still cannot charge at work. I can't drive for lunch, drive in Eco now, and keep my speed at 65. My battery capacity is at 48Ahr. 27% drop in 29 months. The claim of 70% at end of 10 years seems so hypothetical.
However, there is always risk associated with new technology, based on the information that was made available, your judgement seems pretty sound. IMHO.
However, there is always risk associated with new technology, based on the information that was made available, your judgement seems pretty sound. IMHO.
mwalsh said:
abasile
Well-known member
Even for me, at 41K miles and on the cusp of losing one bar, the range loss has been faster than we expected when we purchased the car. We just got new tires (just in time for the 4-5" of snow we got last night) which have further reduced the range. While I can charge at work in "emergencies", I'm not sure I can justify every day as such. My workaround is to use my bicycle as my "range extender" whenever I can. I often park several miles from work, get in about 25 minutes of solid exercise by biking the remaining distance, then shower at work. I shouldn't have to do this, but thankfully I've long been an avid cyclist and I enjoy cardio workouts.mwalsh said:
Urgh! New tires...I had forgotten that those would do a number. That'll be a double whammy this winter then, 'cause I'll need new ones too.
Yep, my professional judgement has been pretty sound otherwise. Fortunately.
Yep, my professional judgement has been pretty sound otherwise. Fortunately.
I'm impressed that you'll probably manage to do double the miles that I have before losing a bar despite all your mountain driving... I bet you make it close to 50k miles before losing a bar. Those cold mountain nights have really helped extend the life of your battery.abasile said:
All that said - I still firmly believe that a 30% more energy dense "hot" battery would be a game changer. Sure - that would probably entice people with even longer commutes to buy the car and those people would be disappointed near the end of their battery life - but for the rest of us who now after 2-3 years find the range marginal - it would be a game-changer.
Nissan really needs to sell the car based on it's end-of-life range/capacity. Basically - if you need to charge past 80% regularly you probably shouldn't buy the car. And they really need a charge slider like Tesla - so one can easily charge to anywhere from say 50-100% in 10% increments. With that level of control - you might even sell the car based on the range on a 70% charge.
GRA
Well-known member
With respect to the bolded section, all manufacturers should do so, but until there's an agreed upon and mandated standard (70% of original capacity? 80%?) it ain't gonna happen.drees said:
TimLee
Well-known member
We need to define what end-of-life means! I agree.
70% is just a number. Pretty significant for many people with a LEAF that starts with a 24 kWh battery, unless you have very modest mileage per day needs. Not very significant on an 85 kWh Tesla S.
UNLESS, once you degrade a pack to 70% of initial capacity the capacity then falls of the cliff like happens to many laptop and cell phone batteries.
We won't know that for at least a couple more years.
The hot climate batteries will be swapped out at 8 bars, almost all of them under the capacity warranty.
We'll only know at the 5, 6, 7 year mark when more moderate climate cars that didn't qualify for Nissan's modest capacity warranty get there, and people won't pay $100 per month to rent a battery.
Those owners will show us what end-of-life really is.
Hopefully battery capacity won't then disappear over night, or maybe the battery cost will have dropped to <$1,000.
70% is just a number. Pretty significant for many people with a LEAF that starts with a 24 kWh battery, unless you have very modest mileage per day needs. Not very significant on an 85 kWh Tesla S.
UNLESS, once you degrade a pack to 70% of initial capacity the capacity then falls of the cliff like happens to many laptop and cell phone batteries.
We won't know that for at least a couple more years.
The hot climate batteries will be swapped out at 8 bars, almost all of them under the capacity warranty.
We'll only know at the 5, 6, 7 year mark when more moderate climate cars that didn't qualify for Nissan's modest capacity warranty get there, and people won't pay $100 per month to rent a battery.
Those owners will show us what end-of-life really is.
Hopefully battery capacity won't then disappear over night, or maybe the battery cost will have dropped to <$1,000.
LEAFfan
Well-known member
RegGuheert said:
No, all of them were before any re-programming.
abasile
Well-known member
That would be nice, but based on the capacity that my car is reporting (55.45 Ah), the first bar is due to disappear any time now. Of course, the bottom line is that the range is down. We're thankful to be able to QC at Fontana Nissan and L2 at Metro Nissan (Redlands) when we need to!drees said:
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