Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[LEAFfan]

Well, we're permanently leaving Texas for northeast Pennsylvania in 2 weeks, so I'm REALLY hoping the cooler weather puts a drastic crimp in the speed of bar losses on my car. Since I just lost my first bar a month and a half ago, I'm hoping the second bar might not happen until maybe the summer of 2015. (crossing fingers)

You have a good chance. I have a friend in Ohio whose 2-year lease is up this month and he still has all 12 CBs. He believes he's only lost about 4-5% capacity. He told me he's planning on buying/leasing a Tesla S 85 as there is a dealer in Columbus.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Well, we're permanently leaving Texas for northeast Pennsylvania in 2 weeks, so I'm REALLY hoping the cooler weather puts a drastic crimp in the speed of bar losses on my car. Since I just lost my first bar a month and a half ago, I'm hoping the second bar might not happen until maybe the summer of 2015. (crossing fingers)

But, wouldn't you want the bar loss to continue so that you could qualify for a warranty replacement? At 82% you were well on your way in Texas. In Pennsylvania it may be a bit iffy to get to 66% in 60 months.

In Pennsylvania you will also get to enjoy the range reduction in winter!

 

[vrwl]

Well, we're permanently leaving Texas for northeast Pennsylvania in 2 weeks, so I'm REALLY hoping the cooler weather puts a drastic crimp in the speed of bar losses on my car. Since I just lost my first bar a month and a half ago, I'm hoping the second bar might not happen until maybe the summer of 2015. (crossing fingers)

But, wouldn't you want the bar loss to continue so that you could qualify for a warranty replacement? At 82% you were well on your way in Texas. In Pennsylvania it may be a bit iffy to get to 66% in 60 months.

In Pennsylvania you will also get to enjoy the range reduction in winter!

According to Stoaty's degradation model, I wouldn't have lost the 4 bars in 60 months (my car is already 2.5 years old), so I would have been SOL here in Texas. Hoping the PA temps will increase my ability to enjoy my car for a longer period of time.

 

[dgpcolorado]

According to Stoaty's degradation model, I wouldn't have lost the 4 bars in 60 months (my car is already 2.5 years old), so I would have been SOL here in Texas. Hoping the PA temps will increase my ability to enjoy my car for a longer period of time.

You purchased it used? I thought that you had purchased a demo, in which case I assumed that the warranty "clock" had started with your purchase.

 

[mwalsh]

I feel like I'm on the cusp of loosing bar 3. There isn't much hard data in the Wiki - just a couple of references to counts that were just shy of 200 Gids around the time for both respondents.

If I look at the Gid data there for losses of bars one and two, I seem to have had a slightly higher count at the loss of my corresponding bars. So I'm expecting to loose bar 3 at just north of 200 Gids, and most days now I'm at between 205 and 208. Now, admittedly, Gid counts do tend to drift down fairly slowly, and not very linearly at that, so it could be that I'm still a couple of months away. But it just doesn't feel like it when I drive the car.

 

[vrwl]

According to Stoaty's degradation model, I wouldn't have lost the 4 bars in 60 months (my car is already 2.5 years old), so I would have been SOL here in Texas. Hoping the PA temps will increase my ability to enjoy my car for a longer period of time.

You purchased it used? I thought that you had purchased a demo, in which case I assumed that the warranty "clock" had started with your purchase.

Yep, "used" with only 89 miles on it. Previously owned by Hertz who apparently never leased it out because they put it up for auction 6 months after they bought it.

 

[ttweed]

I feel like I'm on the cusp of loosing bar 3. There isn't much hard data in the Wiki - just a couple of references to counts that were just shy of 200 Gids around the time for both respondents.

If I look at the Gid data there for losses of bars one and two, I seem to have had a slightly higher count at the loss of my corresponding bars. So I'm expecting to loose bar 3 at just north of 200 Gids, and most days now I'm at between 205 and 208. Now, admittedly, Gid counts do tend to drift down fairly slowly, and not very linearly at that, so it could be that I'm still a couple of months away. But it just doesn't feel like it when I drive the car.

There was a recent report of a third bar loss here: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=16085.
Though Gids were not reported, these details were offered:
AHr: 47.47
SOH: 72%
Hx: 65.77%

The AHr figure should be indicative of the Gid reading and give you an idea of where you are. The 72% SOH is probably a good indicator of where the 3rd bar goes away, as my first bar went at 84% and my second at 78%, so another 6% loss puts it at 72% for the third bar, and 66% for the 4th. In what passes for our winter here in SD, the slightly colder weather has kept my SOH at 78% for a few months now (since Christmas), but the warmer weather lately has resulted in my AHr starting to drop again, down to 51.2, indicating 77.28% capacity as of yesterday. My Hx reading is 6% lower than the one above, though, at 59.51% (whatever that means).

YMMV,
TT

 

[mwalsh]

^ I just today saw that. Loosing a third bar at 47.x AHr seems a bit optimistic for me. Since the spread between the loss of the first bar and the second on my car was 2.5AHr, I was sort of expecting the spread to be similar for the loss between bars 11 and 10. So at around 49AHr. But I'll guess we'll see soon.

My hlth readings seem to be a bit nutty compared to others...I don't think I can take it into account.

 

[dhanson865]

First day of spring, we've had reports in this thread of 2 lost this march so far, and 2 more in Feb this year. I'm expecting another one or two reported in the next 10 days and then the big ramp up to summer. Though given the number of people selling or trading in their leaf I have to wonder how many will bother to report the loss here.

March 4
April 6
May 28
June 51*
July 50*
Aug 59*
September 37
October 9
November 2
December 2
Jan 3
Feb 4

* (plus several with no date that are likely in that month based on order of entry, if there was any doubt about the date of loss I didn't count it)

 

[HighDesertDriver]

Our purchased 2011 SL lost it's second capacity bar yesterday, 23 Mar 2014, at 39,750 miles. LeafDD shows the capacity at 51.57 Ah. As temperatures have been creeping up in recent weeks, Ah has resumed a slow but generally downward slide. We now charge only to 100%. Apart from the capacity loss, the car has been 100% reliable. With two summers still, our current rate of mileage should exhaust capacity bar 4 before we pass the 5/60 warranty.

 

[TomT]

Not for long if certain Ohio legislatures get there way...

He told me he's planning on buying/leasing a Tesla S 85 as there is a dealer in Columbus.

 

[leafedbehind]

Well, add me to the list of bar-losers. Lost my first bar this morning, at 20,714 miles and 2 years, 6.5 months. Live in SF Bay area, rarely use QC, almost always charge to 80%, never gone down to turtle. I am not in a very hot part of the SF Bay Area (Mountain View). I knew it was coming soon, since I got a Leaf DD monitor about 6 months ago. I don't think I will lose four bars quickly enough to get a battery replacement, but I guess you never know. I own the car, and had planned to keep it for a good while. Fortunately, I have a short commute, but the loss of range has definitely been felt over the past year.

-Steve

 

[GRA]

Well, add me to the list of bar-losers. Lost my first bar this morning, at 20,714 miles and 2 years, 6.5 months. Live in SF Bay area, rarely use QC, almost always charge to 80%, never gone down to turtle. I am not in a very hot part of the SF Bay Area (Mountain View). I knew it was coming soon, since I got a Leaf DD monitor about 6 months ago. I don't think I will lose four bars quickly enough to get a battery replacement, but I guess you never know. I own the car, and had planned to keep it for a good while. Fortunately, I have a short commute, but the loss of range has definitely been felt over the past year.

-Steve

You've got a decent chance of qualifying for the warranty. You'll be charging to 100% and using more of the battery capacity from now on, and you're halfway there at just over the halfway mark in time.

 

[Harv]

Lost my 1st bar 2 days ago, at about 15,500 miles. I have used QC just 4 times since having got the car in March 2011. Hope this is not out of line with others' experiences.

 

[Reddy]

Sounds like very low mileage to me (around 5000 mi/yr). This might be the lowest mileage first bar loss in your area.

 

[RegGuheert]

Sounds like very low mileage to me (around 5000 mi/yr). This might be the lowest mileage first bar loss in your area.

Sure, but since LEAF battery loss is dominated by calendar losses, the number of miles is less of an issue than the age, particularly if the car is not driven much. Stoaty's LEAF Battery Degradation Model puts calendar losses at 11.16% and solar loading losses at 1.8% (assuming 5 days/week in the sun), even without cycling...

 

[TomT]

The only possible fly in the BMW warranty ointment is what happens if you lose 20% the first year and then the next 10% over the remaining 9... Unlikely I know, and it is nice for BMW to actually SPECIFY a capacity warranty, but it is a consideration and some form of sliding capacity scale is really also needed...

Nissan, this is what a REAL battery warranty looks like:

BMW i3 Quote:
* The lithium-ion battery pack is warranted at eight years/100,000 miles in most states, 10 years/150,000 miles in states with California emissions laws.
* BMW also warrants the battery against loss of more than 30 percent of its energy capacity over the warranty period.

 

[Stoaty]

Nissan, this is what a REAL battery warranty looks like:

BMW i3 Quote:
* The lithium-ion battery pack is warranted at eight years/100,000 miles in most states, 10 years/150,000 miles in states with California emissions laws.
* BMW also warrants the battery against loss of more than 30 percent of its energy capacity over the warranty period.

When my Leaf gives up the ghost (assuming Nissan still won't sell me a battery at that time), the battery warranty offered by the manufacturer will be one of the most important factors in determining which car I purchase.

 

[KJD]

The Tesla battery packs seem to be holding up much better than the LEAF battery packs.

Of course the car costs 80 grand instead of 30 grand, so you might expect things to last a little longer.

This Tesla owner claims to have lost only 7% after driving 75,000 miles.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/30353-A-Model-S-owner-hit-75-000-miles-still-gets-93-of-original-range" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[DaveEV]

Nissan, this is what a REAL battery warranty looks like.

Not cool copying someone else's post as your own. :roll: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=364105#p364105" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Tesla battery packs seem to be holding up much better than the LEAF battery packs.

This Tesla owner claims to have lost only 7% after driving 75,000 miles.

That guy is like the TaylorSFGuy of the LEAF world. TaylorSFGuy's battery was down around 15% at 75k miles. You would expect it compared to a Tesla pack over 3x the size...