Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

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dhanson865 said:
Weatherman said:
dhanson865 said:
Looking at the wiki and no one there has reported a lost bar outside of the May to Oct time frame.

I think a Florida resident lost a bar in December, last year.

It's summer, all year long, down here, so it's not surprising. My battery temps were in the upper 80s after last night's charge. My guess is that I'll lose bar #11 sometime in February or March.

#113 Dec 24, 2012 Lake Worth, FL

yeah, I missed that one as I was manually scanning the dates (something like 250 entries now). So the months where losses were observed is May to December with no losses currently reported during January to April.

Maybe a better text visualization would be to list the 12 months with the number of reported bar losses that occurred next to each month like

September 37
October 9
November 0
December 1
Jan 0
Feb 0
March 0
April 0
May 28

June tons
July even more
Aug something like that

Too much work to manually count the hot months but you can see how the December one was unusual and you wonder when April will join the party.

Sadly, I think a lot of the urgency to record the data has been lessened since Nissan has finally acknowledged there's a problem. I think many of the reports of bars lost since that time haven't made it to the wiki. However, when I finally lose mine (any day now), I'll be sure to record it up there.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Are you for real? 36,000 miles and no degradation?
caplossmnl


Norway is cold, really cold! If you apply the aging factor, it's probably comparable to your LEAF when it had 26K miles on the odometer. Canadian LEAFs are doing well too, at least from what I've heard.

1aZbPs0
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
eivisa said:
Norway here. Still all bars. ;)
57500km (12 bars, AHr 65,08, Hlth 98.26%, 279 Gids) 96 QC and L1/L2=1402.
Are you for real? 36,000 miles and no degradation?
Of course there isn't much degradation after 3 days (Delivery date listed as 11/21/13). I'm just trying to figure out how anyone put almost 20,000 km per day on their Leaf. ;) That must be one heck of a fast Leaf with a lot of QC. :lol:
 
Stoaty said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
eivisa said:
Norway here. Still all bars. ;)
57500km (12 bars, AHr 65,08, Hlth 98.26%, 279 Gids) 96 QC and L1/L2=1402.
Are you for real? 36,000 miles and no degradation?
Of course there isn't much degradation after 3 days (Delivery date listed as 11/21/13). I'm just trying to figure out how anyone put almost 20,000 km per day on their Leaf. ;) That must be one heck of a fast Leaf with a lot of QC. :lol:


well, that is an "understandable" issue. the funny thing is that the last time I registered something in the 279 GID (actually it was 278) was mid April and I was at just below his at 32,000 but at the time I felt I had lost more range than that and other anecdotal findings reported here made me think that as well.

so the big question is... have you had your update?
 
18 days since the upgrade.
Attach images from Leaf battery and Leaf Spy Lite which is taken today.
The outside air temperature is 1.5 degrees Celsius.
Screenshot_2013-11-25-11-09-38.png
Screenshot_2013-11-25-11-10-10.png
Screenshot_2013-11-25-11-10-20.png
 
vrwl said:
Sadly, I think a lot of the urgency to record the data has been lessened since Nissan has finally acknowledged there's a problem. I think many of the reports of bars lost since that time haven't made it to the wiki. However, when I finally lose mine (any day now), I'll be sure to record it up there.

Make sure you fill out the battery pack size survey also.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=15103" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
mwalsh said:
KJD said:
Make sure you fill out the battery pack size survey also.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=15103" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
To what end? I'm not about to buy another LEAF anytime soon, so how can that possibly make any difference?
Too each his own I guess. What are you going to replace it with when the time comes ?

While I may lust after a Tesla Model X with AWD and a 85kwh battery pack, I would much rather have an EV that costs less than 80 grand.

I really do hope that Nissan fixes the hot battery degradation issue next year as they have promised. We shall see. If they can do that and offer a LEAF with a larger battery pack I would consider a new one for sure. I also want to test drive the BMW i3, but it looks overpriced to me.
 
eivisa - funny as my Leaf in Poland has almost the same VIN number (last 3 digits says 343) - so almost same manufactured date (mine 01/2012) - hope battery will be as good as yours ;).
But my Leaf Spy readings are minimal worse (AHR 97-98%), I'm still PRE-Update as my dealer is now consulting Nissan how to do that (???). Also mine ODO is 12.000km, so far less than yours. We had pretty hot summer so it might degrade my battery a little :/....
Now also is cold (-2 deg C) and little snow (first snow) came. I'll post my AHR tomorrow, now charging to 100%
 
Nissan Leaf Likely To Get 'Hot Weather' Battery In Next Year
caplossmnl


BENGT HALVORSON said:
Nissan is readying a new lithium-ion chemistry for its Leaf electric car, aimed at better range performance in hot-weather climates. And it's likely bound for all Leaf models in the first half of next year.

Last week at the Tokyo Motor Show, Andy Palmer, Nissan's executive vice president and global marketing chief, confirmed that the new chemistry will probably be implemented soon.

While the new chemistry won't provide any official improvement over the EPA-rated 84-mile range, it will produce real-world range improvement—and less degradation of capacity—for those in extremely hot climates, such as Arizona and Texas.

Although Palmer couldn't yet give an exact 'job one' on the new packs, he did say that things are looking good for the changeover, and this month the company will be making some key decisions regarding how to implement the new chemistry. A final testing period is about to conclude, he explained.

Will be a running improvement, not a model-year change

Billy Hayes, Nissan's vice president for global electric-car sales, said that provided it's approved, factories would simply stop building one chemistry one day and start another. All Leaf models globally would make the changeover—much like an engineering improvement to an engine design in a gasoline vehicle.

But that does mean if you're in the market at that time and in the South, you might want to pay attention to build date. The revised version of the battery chemistry performs better in prolonged high-heat situations. The Leaf's pack is air-cooled and thus could be somewhat more susceptible to extreme temperatures.

These packs could also become the replacement for current Leaf batteries that are replaced under warranty due to loss of capacity.

Following up on an Arizona issue

The move is a remedy to an issue first noted nearly a year and a half ago, when a particularly vocal group of Leaf owners in Arizona noted that their cars had begun to lose capacity bars as displayed on the dash—and some of their useful driving range as well.

Nissan then met with the Arizona owner group this past August, announcing the work in progress.

“Assuming that the testing worked out well, and we're optimistic that we would use that chemistry for replacements, moving forward,” said Palmer.

Nissan provided airfare, lodging, and meals to allow High Gear Media to bring you this first-person report.
 
surfingslovak said:
Nissan is readying a new lithium-ion chemistry for its Leaf electric car, aimed at better range performance in hot-weather climates. And it's likely bound for all Leaf models in the first half of next year.
I wonder how a consumer will know if a vehicle has the new chemistry or not. If not on model year, I wonder if they'll slip it in with no clear mention. Its a more important change than any 2014 changes.
 
dm33 said:
I wonder how a consumer will know if a vehicle has the new chemistry or not. If not on model year, I wonder if they'll slip it in with no clear mention. Its a more important change than any 2014 changes.
Agreed. The author of the article mentions the build date as the decisive attribute, but perhaps there will be other cues. Using the new chemistry in all vehicles is crucial IMHO, and I mentioned this in several conversations. Hopefully, that's what Nissan will end up doing. Building and shipping two different chemistries might not be desirable from an economic aspect anyway.

BENGT HALVORSON said:
But that does mean if you're in the market at that time and in the South, you might want to pay attention to build date.
 
At our meeting in Phoenix, Billy and I talked about this at length... He concurred that having two different batteries made no sense since, among other things, the new high temp battery was "only slightly more expensive..." However, and this is just my own opinion, what may decide who gets what and when may be driven by how quickly the battery chemistry changeover can occur at the battery manufacturing level...

surfingslovak said:
The author of the article mentions the build date as the decisive attribute, but perhaps there will be other cues. Using the new chemistry in all vehicles is crucial IMHO, and I mentioned this in several conversations. Hopefully, that's what Nissan will end up doing. Building and shipping two different chemistries might not be desirable from an economic aspect anyway.
 
KJD said:
While I may lust after a Tesla Model X with AWD and a 85kwh battery pack, I would much rather have an EV that costs less than 80 grand.
I keep looking at the 85kW S with just tech package and air suspension... $79,570 after Fed tax :)
Model X I would be looking at just 2wd & 85kW battery.
 
I've found a problem with his story. To say the LEAF is "air cooled" implies some kind of induction. I've been correcting this whenever I see it (and I see it a lot) and encourage others to do the same. It's passively cooled or works via heat transfer (to the battery case) at best. I tell people that the cells "just sit there, baking in the hot air".
 
Yeah, I saw this too and was tempted to correct it in a comment, but decided that there was little to be gained by doing so...

mwalsh said:
I've found a problem with his story. To say the LEAF is "air cooled" implies some kind of induction.
 
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