Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

[user 10599]

Nice write-up Tony on how to do longer distance travel most time efficiently in BEVs. This logically would be applicable to varying degrees to a lot of the EV segment and might warrant it's own thread.

 

[arnis]

What about Bolt heating system. This dude said it has 2.3kW coolant based heater.
Is it true? 2.3kW heating element?

https://youtu.be/t8H8vVD5UAY?t=22m12s

 

[LeftieBiker]

In the Bolt forum, they've decided it's about 7kw. 2.3 kw of resistance heat wouldn't be enough in frigid weather.

 

[arnis]

Interesting, no definite answer. 4kW is appropriate for smaller hatchbacks, 6kW for big vehicles like Tesla S/X.
Leaf with 4kW is enough. 2.3kW would not be enough. 7kW on the other hand is overkill. Not sure how much
is wasted outside of the cabin (like with older Leafs).

 

[jjeff]

Also a coolant based heater is a bad idea IMO, I mean the first couple years of the Leaf used coolant before Nissan got it right and switched to air, much quicker to heat and more efficient.

 

[edatoakrun]

First (?) significant discounts from MSRP on Bolt leases posted:

...All 2017 Bolt EV LT - Rydell Discount of $2,000 Off MSRP (PLUS all applicable incentives and government rebates)
All 2017 Bolt EV Premier - Rydell Discount of $2,500 Off MSRP (PLUS all applicable incentives and government rebates)...

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?277881-Bolt-EV-Presidents-Day-Pricing-at-Rydell-Chevrolet

Barring a gas price spike, lower Bolt prices are likely in coming months, IMO.

 

[LeftieBiker]

If I like the car when I drive it (hopefully in March) maybe I can wait for a lower lease price in April.

 

[GRA]

~200 miles in less than ideal conditions is apparently no sweat (at least when new): http://www.mychevybolt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5852

 

[NeilBlanchard]

I am probably going to see the Bolt EV tomorrow here in eastern Massachusetts.

 

[DaveEV]

I spoke to a Bolt owner while we were charging at an EVgo station (another poor LEAF owner pulled up right after I plugged in and had to wait), and he really liked his Bolt.

Described the real world range as being 180 miles on the freeway - that's probably driving 75-80, though I didn't ask.

Loved the EV torque and power of it. Didn't like having to restart his QC sessions at EVgo stations since they stop at 30 min. Appeared to be doing the bulk of his charging at EVgo stations using the subscription and happy with the cost.

The other LEAF owner and I were jealous of the range. Though the other LEAF owner had 30kWh so his range is 2x mine currently. I now hit LBW at 40-43 miles normally, so don't have much more than 55 miles of range milking it at 4.4-4.5 mi/kWh.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Lots of Bolts arriving here. Had a couple minutes so went to see it and drove around the lot, just to get a first impression. Looks nice. Felt slightly smaller than Leaf, smaller hatchback. Liked the dash display. The nav screen is at least four times the size of my SV. The premier's seat pinched a bit. Shifter seems clunky. Steering wheel telescope adjustment is nice. Rear view camera mirror is no improvement over a regular mirror. Salesman had no clue, told me they get training next week. Four other people there to see the eight they have in stock. Not a good time for deals. Like the blue.

 

[redLEAF]

I spoke to a Bolt owner while we were charging at an EVgo station (another poor LEAF owner pulled up right after I plugged in and had to wait), and he really liked his Bolt.

Described the real world range as being 180 miles on the freeway - that's probably driving 75-80, though I didn't ask.

Loved the EV torque and power of it. Didn't like having to restart his QC sessions at EVgo stations since they stop at 30 min. Appeared to be doing the bulk of his charging at EVgo stations using the subscription and happy with the cost.

The other LEAF owner and I were jealous of the range. Though the other LEAF owner had 30kWh so his range is 2x mine currently. I now hit LBW at 40-43 miles normally, so don't have much more than 55 miles of range milking it at 4.4-4.5 mi/kWh.

This is great info -- how practical any long distance driving might be -- typical DC/QC stations will limit to an 80% charge for most 'commuter' EV's but the new Bolt changes that; you had mentioned that EVgo will simply shut down after 30 minutes of charging?

I would wonder if any Bolt owner tried the DC/QC CCS for 3 sequential charges to get a closer to 'full' battery? We know that a single session will net 90 miles for a Bolt; 2 sessions would be 180 miles and a 3rd could raise that but as all EV batteries do heat up when using QC, getting that last bit of extra miles takes much longer so as not to damage the battery with excessive heat (we would also be talking about 1 hour + at a charging station, many don't want to wait that long).

By comparison, a Tesla Supercharger will give you 170 miles of range in 30 minutes -- so right off the bat, a Bolt takes twice as long to get close to that kind of range; I would think that two successive QC sessions CAN'T be good for the health of the battery but not sure of the battery chemistry, etc. of what they're using in the Bolt and but as it does charge at a much slower rate (50 kW versus 120 kW) perhaps not an issue --on our older LEAF's can attest that having only air-cooled battery packs, repeat QC sessions REALLY heats up the pack.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I would wonder if any Bolt owner tried the DC/QC CCS for 3 sequential charges to get a closer to 'full' battery?

It gets progressively slower, and IIRC after three sessions a Bolt still isn't quite full.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I would wonder if any Bolt owner tried the DC/QC CCS for 3 sequential charges to get a closer to 'full' battery?

It gets progressively slower, and IIRC after three sessions a Bolt still isn't quite full.

It would take over two hours to go from empty to full.

That's why I recommend charging from 15% to 65% at an average rate of about 40-42kW, which will add 75-125 miles of range in about 30 minutes to an hour. Obviously, that would depend on another DC fast charger (or your destination) being within 75-125 miles:

http://insideevs.com/planning-a-long-journey-with-your-chevrolet-bolt-ev-or-opel-ampera-e/

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Isn't the modular ChargePoint Express system (up to 400 kW) supposed to be available soon? That should change the equation.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Isn't the modular ChargePoint Express system (up to 400 kW) supposed to be available soon? That should change the equation.

Change the equation to what? If the Chevy Bolt EV is restricted to 125 amps, it will charge at EXACTLY the same speed on a "400kW" charge as it does on a 50kW one.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Yes, for this model year's Bolt. But as a higher powered network gets deployed, more EVs will be designed that can use it, hopefully. Could a car charge at up to 400 kW? If not, what might be the theoretical limit? Surely we're not going to be stuck with 50 kW QCs for too much longer.

 

[edatoakrun]

Those on this forum who are aroused by images of over-sized battery pack may want to take note.

From reports on charging rates and efficiency available to date, it appears the Bolt's ~66 kWh pack will not produce significant improvements in long-range travel time over another BEV with a pack less than half its capacity, (~31 kWh) which will be available in the USA market shortly.

Go to the Ioniq thread for detailed discussions of the Ioniq's superior efficiency (likely more than 20% higher than the bolt, during high speed trips in cold weather) and higher (reportedly up to 70 kW, when available) DC charge rates:

...
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/02/20170216-ioniq-1.html

As I've posted previously, the Ioniq's superior efficiency and (perhaps) higher charge rate as shown above means it should actually be a fairly close contest between it and a Bolt on a long freeway trip, despite the Bolt having more than twice the Ioniq's available battery capacity.

For example, I would expect an Ioniq driven from L.A to S.F (at the unofficial speed limit) could get there within ~ a half-hour of the time it took for a Bolt, and could even pass the bolt on a longer trip.

Both BEVs would be much slower than any ICEVs on any long trip, of course.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=21136&start=110

 

[TonyWilliams]

For example, I would expect an Ioniq driven from L.A to S.F (at the unofficial speed limit) could get there within ~ a half-hour of the time it took for a Bolt, and could even pass the bolt on a longer trip.

Both BEVs would be much slower than any ICEVs on any long trip, of course.

Besides all the current production Tesla cars, only the Hyundai Ioniq and the sister company Kia Soul EV has 200 amp DC charging.

There are exactly zero non-Tesla DC chargers over 125 amps in the USA, so your trip to San Francisco won't be faster than a Bolt EV. It will actually be far slower.

Obviously, the competing Tesla Model 3 will charge well above 200 amps, and far faster than any competing car. Currently, a Tesla can charge at up to 365 amps.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Yes, for this model year's Bolt. But as a higher powered network gets deployed, more EVs will be designed that can use it, hopefully. Could a car charge at up to 400 kW? If not, what might be the theoretical limit? Surely we're not going to be stuck with 50 kW QCs for too much longer.

They arrive at these inflated numbers by multiplying the maximum voltage (1000v) by the maximum amps (350a continuous, 400a with liquid cooled plug and limited duty cycle). No car is likely to EVER charge at 350kW, or 400kw with these chargers.

There will be cars, like a Tesla today, that can use 350-400 amps, but that will very likely be at far lower voltages.

There is one vehicle that can use all those amps... Tesla cars. The problem is that the Tesla - CHAdeMO adaptor is limited to (drum roll)... 125 amps, just like a GM Bolt EV, and virtually every EV that has DC charging cacpabilty EXCEPT all Tesla cars (except Roadster), Hyundai Ioniq and Kia Soul EV.