Curious why you bought your leaf?

[BernieTx]

I bought a Volt because it seems to be greener, than an ICE, and is a practical solution to all of my driving needs. Its also fun! And GM did a superb job engineering a car whose battery is compatible with the hot Texas summers. I look forward to using a lot less petroleum (only highway driving at EPA 40mpg), and a little more electricity, which seems better overall for the the USA. I look forward to mostly only charging at home, on a 240v clipper creek. My local Austin driving needs will be almost 100% electric. I can also drive the Volt to any of the numerous small and big towns spread out across Texas. I couldn't possibly get to many of these places in a BEV because the electric infrastructure simply isn't there yet even for a 260mile range Tesla.

 

[rogersleaf]

yep I am dumb. $1800 was the number (assumed $3) 600 was the gallons

even at $1800 though payments are $3600 twice the cost of fuel.

at 30,000 miles the fuel costs really start to ramp up especially at higher gas prices and higher maintenance costs.

Trying to justify this by cash-flowing payments vs. fuel savings doesn't work. That payment is basically depreciation (esp. with most leases) and the primary factor in a car note. The depreciation will happen regardless of which vehicle (EV vs. ICE) is driven.

These numbers look haunting close to mine...aiming for 2/3 of my ~30K miles/yr on the LEAF equates to roughly 700 gallons of gas not purchases/burned. I'm more interested in how well the LEAF survives in the 60-120K+ mileage range. As with most things in life, the opportunity to leverage any savings won't happen until out of debt. So for now content with break-even economics relative to an ICE. Not sure I would have got a LEAF in the current $2/gal fuel market, $3/gal maybe, $4/gal it makes much more sense for my own situation.

I too enjoy the secondary attributes of the car. It's difficult to beat for qualitative attributes such as noise, vibration, and smoothness at this price point or size. Arriving at work not beat to death from frost-cratered roads is an unexpected plus. Scary part is my elderly father likes the LEAF when I use it for his doctors appointments. He has become hypersensitive to noticing fumes & noise from other vehicles when riding in the LEAF.

 

[ishiyakazuo]

My reasons are many...
1) I'm also a bit of a geek and I think EVs are pretty cool.
2) I'm 6'3" and my wife is 4'10". There is a small subset of cars that we both comfortably fit in. The LEAF happens to be in that subset.
3) I bought a used Hyundai Sonata back in early 2009, and at the time it already was creeping up on 50k miles (but I got a steal on it and it had a very strong extended warranty being offered with it, for $4k less than I'd paid ~3 years earlier on a used Honda Civic). Then in 2013 the Civic died and we had to run out and buy something so my wife could commute, so we got a used Honda Fit (which fit my wife better than the Civic did, and I can still drive), for even more than the Civic cost roughly 8 years prior. The Sonata was more of an impulse buy, and while it fit me nicely, it never worked for my wife, so it was "my car." We got our money's worth out of the Sonata over the 6 years we had it, and it still seemed reliable, but I tend to be someone who can only stick with a car for about 5-6 years without lusting after something newer.
4) Used LEAFs are plentiful and cheap around here (Chicago area). We looked at a few before we settled on the one we got, and we ended up getting one with 20k miles on the odometer, off-lease from Michigan according to AutoCheck (which jibes with the sales sticker that was still in the glove box), so I figure the battery is still likely to be in decent condition from a temperature standpoint, and we got a heck of a deal (incl. the Nissan extended warranty, and the money put in for an L2 EVSE, we've paid about $15,500 after taxes and everything), which is about $3k less than my Honda Fit was less than 2 years prior. If it gets me to and from work for 5 years (40 mi./day), I expect to save about $4k in fuel compared to my Sonata, and hopefully it will be lower maintenance as well. If I need to change out the battery after another 4-5 years, given the cheaper starting price compared to the Fit, and the fuel savings, I'm not going to cry about it too much. It just means that the actual cost savings over its lifetime might not be as tremendous, but I'm banking on better and cheaper batteries being available by then.
5) It's. So. Quiet. Seriously, that was a big selling point for me. I've got a young kid, and he goes to sleep in it really fast when we drive in it on the weekend. It's awesome.

In short, I'm a cheapskate and a nerd. Personally, I'm not really convinced that a BEV is much better for the environment than an ICE car when all is taken into account (given the variety of sources of electricity we have and the materials gathered to make the cars, etc.), but I doubt it's much worse, either, so for those of you who feel strongly about that cause as well, I'm happy to help.

 

[ElectricEddy]

Because I couldn't afford a Tesla :lol:

 

[leafedbehind]

My biggest reason is geopolitical. I am tired of our foreign policy decisions revolving around the need for oil. Many of the world's oil producing nations are NOT our friends, but we have to be nice to them if we want to buy oil from them. The Saudis in particular have no qualms about using one hand to shake ours while simultaneously stabbing us in the back with the other. We already have seen them both cut off our supply when they are mad at us (1973 oil embargo) and they recently flooded the world's oil supply to drive down the price to make it cost-prohibitive for other nations to produce oil (Russia is especially hard hit by this). With other players out of the running, they can play their games again.

BTW I am anything BUT a left-wing type.

For me it is lots of the reasons others have also stated, but geopolitics was the primary reason -- 9/11, the Iraq war, and all the wars and killing that have happened before and since. I'd love to see gasoline priced according to its true cost, taking into account trillions spent on wars in the middle east, plus all the other externalities. $10/gal seems closer to what it should be. We got our LEAF on 9/11/11, which was completely coincidental, but seems entirely appropriate. We have saved no money whatsoever so far, because we are early adopters, and the car has lost $14K in value in only 3.5 years. But we also fuel the car from solar panels on our roof, and expect that sunk cost to reap benefits for 2-3 decades (already one decade so far). We also are leasing a Fit EV -- that has been a much better deal financially.

 

[BrockWI]

1. The vehicle matched what we needed. A LOT of really short trips (a mile or 3) spread out across the day. An ICE never warms up or stays warm, is not efficient doing so. The Leaf just goes and is fine with short trips. It is just so much more efficient for the task we use it for.

2. Similar to some of those that mentioned it, but I wanted to be able to not rely on someone else (foreign or domestic) for my energy to move my vehicle. I can make my own energy (solar), no buying it from anyone, no reliance on burning something to move or pay whatever the energy cost might be because its my only choice to move from point A to point B. I can't say how much I now dislike going to a "gas station". I just plug the Leaf in and it's full and ready to go the next morning.

3. The geek-ness of it all. It is so simple and makes so much sense. A gasoline engine and all related components are quite complex, a battery and motor is pretty straight forward.

 

[Zythryn]

I bought (leased) a Leaf because our driving patterns are changing and will allow a shorter range to meet our needs. This allowed us to switch one of our vehicles to a more efficient one.

In addition, EVs are simply;
more convenient,
give a better driving experience,
are more fun to drive,
use fuel that is locally sourced,
create vastly less local asthma and respiratory disease causing pollution,
lower maintenance,
and use a safer fuel in the event of accidents.

 

[minispeed]

but leasing it means paying $300 a month (a lot more than gas) and having to give it back in 3 years.

Yes but the market has proven there are a lot of people who are willing to spend that, or even up to $500 a month on an ICE lease every month for many years and always turn it back for the joy of always having a new car, never having to drive something out of warrantee, for some people on 3 year leases it might mean never having to shop for tires and maybe never doing a brake job.

For those same people in a BEV if they are going to get in the revolving 3 year lease it will almost certainly mean taking the car in only once per year and getting a check up that is free or very low cost and nothing else ever...... That's a huge advantage.

I bought a Volt because it seems to be greener, than an ICE, and is a practical solution to all of my driving needs. Its also fun! And GM did a superb job engineering a car whose battery is compatible with the hot Texas summers. I look forward to using a lot less petroleum (only highway driving at EPA 40mpg), and a little more electricity, which seems better overall for the the USA. I look forward to mostly only charging at home, on a 240v clipper creek. My local Austin driving needs will be almost 100% electric. I can also drive the Volt to any of the numerous small and big towns spread out across Texas. I couldn't possibly get to many of these places in a BEV because the electric infrastructure simply isn't there yet even for a 260mile range Tesla.

It is possible that the volt is hiding battery degradation in the un used part of the battery. We will never know until the packs start getting sold off as scrap and people start hooking them up to other things to find out how much usable capacity is left. I see that as a good way to build consumer confidence in electric driving but in the short term it is a very un-green thing to do. If they let you use a much higher percentage of the battery without having to shift over to gas then as it ages we'd see the electric only range go down. If you get 20% more every day for the first year, 15% more for the second, then 10, 5 same then -5, -10, -15 etc... for the first 5 years you'd burn less gas and it would take a few more years to come out to neutral with what the volt electric/gas split is limited to now. Most new car buyers that would complain about range loss would be out by then. (from my memory the volt uses 10.4/16kWh, 65% so I assumed 85% could be used). In the long range if the data showing 0% range loss over 8 years helps more people jump on electric then maybe it's a good thing.

Because I couldn't afford a Tesla :lol:

I second this and add i3, although I could stretch to afford it if I had waited 6+ months the back seat meant it wouldn't be the main family car.

Cheaper, 1cent per km vs the gen iii prius at 6 cents, insight at 4 cents was cheaper as the leaf being new will never save money over an insight but the insight couldn't do single car duties so I had to have a 3rd family car. The leaf makes up the cost difference because it replaced 2 cars for me.

 

[Roadburner440]

To save money and wear and tear on my other vehicles is my reason. Finding out the driving electric thing was pretty fun came afterwards so wasn't my primary reason.. I only drive 10,000 miles a year, but seeing as I find myself sitting idle in traffic a lot. Also in a lot of stop and go traffic, and driving at extremely slow speeds (a lot of the speed limits around here are 25mph or less) having the LEAF as my primary commuter has saved a bunch of hard wear on my normal vehicles. I have no idea of a dollar amount to put on it, but it is quite a bit as my driving always put ICE vehicles on the severe schedule. which pretty much halved the mileage.

Seems here 37 months later my logic was at least mostly correct. In the beginning I didn't picture the whole battery degradation thing being as bad as it is. There are DCQC going in around my area, so it is at least making it bearable till I can hopefully get a lizard pack. Car has been great though. Even at 78%hx it still does what I need it to do.

 

[adric22]

I just like high-tech cars. Gasoline vehicles, and especially diesel, just seem like driving around a farm tractor or a steam engine or something. Just very old-fashioned. Electric vehicles are so convenient. They are so elegant in their operation. Gasoline is the past.

 

[dgpcolorado]

My reasons were environmental as well as the geopolitical ones mentioned by RonDawg above. Same reasons I bicycle commuted for several decades. I vividly remember the oil embargo and the gas lines of the '70s.

Buying my LEAF wasn't remotely cost-effective: just driving my beater ICE car would have been much, much, much cheaper. But I was willing to be an early adopter of the LEAF in order to reduce my use of oil and to support the further development of EVs (if nobody buys them, Nissan and other companies won't make them). And I decided early on, long before I got my LEAF, that I wanted to put in solar panels so that someday I could drive on "sun-power".

Since I live in a remote, rural, mountain area, for which the LEAF was not designed, it has been an adventure, but I have enjoyed the challenge. The unexpected bonus was that the LEAF was so much more fun to drive than an ICE car that I can't see myself ever going back to just an ICE car, no EV. Eventually I hope to get a Tesla Model III and get rid of the backup ICEV: one car, an EV able to make thousand mile trips easily, as well as the usual shorter ones.

 

[Mottyski82]

I would like to (respectfully) disagree with you, dgpcolorado...

Since I live in a remote, rural, mountain area, for which the LEAF was not designed

Wasn't the LEAF pretty much designed for Japan's automotive market? It was, at the very least, designed IN Japan. Japanese roads are plenty mountainous, and the climate gets pretty cold and snowy at times too...
What exactly is it about remote, and mountainous driving that you feel the LEAF was not designed for?

 

[ishiyakazuo]

To save money and wear and tear on my other vehicles is my reason.

This. For city driving, an EV can't be beat.

I would like to (respectfully) disagree with you, dgpcolorado...

Since I live in a remote, rural, mountain area, for which the LEAF was not designed

Wasn't the LEAF pretty much designed for Japan's automotive market? It was, at the very least, designed IN Japan. Japanese roads are plenty mountainous, and the climate gets pretty cold and snowy at times too...
What exactly is it about remote, and mountainous driving that you feel the LEAF was not designed for?

The cold/snowy depends on where in Japan you are... Much of Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto rarely sees snow all year. Japan is also very much pockets of cities, and I suspect that the LEAF was really designed around that. I have to agree with dgpcolorado -- if I didn't live in the suburbs of a major city, the LEAF would be a nonstarter for me. It would probably do even better if I lived in the city itself, but oh well.

 

[RonDawg]

To save money and wear and tear on my other vehicles is my reason. Finding out the driving electric thing was pretty fun came afterwards so wasn't my primary reason.. I only drive 10,000 miles a year, but seeing as I find myself sitting idle in traffic a lot. Also in a lot of stop and go traffic, and driving at extremely slow speeds (a lot of the speed limits around here are 25mph or less) having the LEAF as my primary commuter has saved a bunch of hard wear on my normal vehicles. I have no idea of a dollar amount to put on it, but it is quite a bit as my driving always put ICE vehicles on the severe schedule. which pretty much halved the mileage.

I've mentioned this before, but my previous daily driver (now my backup) is an Audi A3 2.0T. The TFSI engine in that car is notorious for its oil consumption (VAG seems to think it's perfectly OK for a 21st century car to burn as much as a quart of oil every 1k miles) and just before I got the Leaf I was seriously contemplating getting rid of it, which would have made me sad as it is an enjoyable car to drive. Since I got the Leaf, the Audi only gets used for long trips, and any stop and go traffic it may encounter is incidental.

Now that it's not doing hard duty, oil consumption has significantly decreased. Before I was using a quart every 1200 miles; now I can go at least 3k miles before having to add a quart. I could even go longer, except I change the oil on it once a year, and 3k is the most annual mileage I've put on it since getting the Leaf. On those same long trips, the car can easily hit 30 MPG, something it's NEVER done when it was a daily driver (the official fuel economy estimate was 22/25/29).

 

[AlanSqB]

Because I couldn't afford a Tesla :lol:

This...and all the other wonderful stuff people said, but mostly this.

Actually, we went to the dealer just to look at one and ended up taking a test drive. The drive was so fun and exceptional I had to get it. Traded in a 13 month old Honda Civic SI and haven't regretted it once. I love being able to expense mileage in a car I don't have to put gas in .

 

[LeftieBiker]

I've mentioned this before, but my previous daily driver (now my backup) is an Audi A3 2.0T. The TFSI engine in that car is notorious for its oil consumption (VAG seems to think it's perfectly OK for a 21st century car to burn as much as a quart of oil every 1k miles) and just before I got the Leaf I was seriously contemplating getting rid of it, which would have made me sad as it is an enjoyable car to drive. Since I got the Leaf, the Audi only gets used for long trips, and any stop and go traffic it may encounter is incidental.

Just a brief off-topic thought: I've found that oil consumption can change radically between 0-XX weight oil and 5-XX. I never used zero weight after that.

 

[nerys]

"Trying to justify this by cash-flowing payments vs. fuel savings doesn't work. That payment is basically depreciation (esp. with most leases) and the primary factor in a car note. The depreciation will happen regardless of which vehicle (EV vs. ICE) is driven."

maybe. but it works for me.

I went from spending $450 to $500 a month in fuel (no joke delivery driver and my other job is 110miles round trip)

sure I have a metro but it is horrible for delivery for a big person like me. so I used the minivan. 13mpg delivering :-( ouch. but worth it for the comfort alone.

The LEAF is insanely comfortable and easy to get in and out of (I attribute this to the battery pushing the "seat" higher so the car from the perspective of a seated driver getting in or out is "higher" off the ground. way way way higher than the metro.

The leaf costs me $305 a month plus an extra $60 a month in insurance (over what I would pay without it)

so the "leaf" costs me $365 a month. which means I am actually saving money over paying for fuel to the tune of around $130 a month.

with lower gas prices its more like saving $60-$70 a month. but still a savings and not a shabby one either.

so after 3.5 years or so (100,000 miles) I will have saved enough in fuel to 100% pay for the car. ok $200 short.

ie the car is free for all intents and purposes financially.

I don't really care about depreciation as I never intend to sell the car. when the battery no longer gives me the range I need I will replace it and also around that time buy a newer 150-200 mile range leaf that should be out and affordable by that time.

keep the old leaf with its new battery as the "backup" to the new leaf (instead of the metro as the backup) in fact maybe I won't even replace the battery. even 40 miles (winter drop dead range estimate) would be plenty as a backup car IE enough charge would be replaced into the depleted new car (if it ever gets depleted) to switch back to it.

so instead of replacing the battery put that $6k into a new car and just keep running on the current battery. in another 3 or so years after that maybe more with its reduced usage then replace the battery.

I make less than $20k a year. for me its all financial why I got one now.

the other reasons which ARE important to me (green clean cheap fun etc..) are bonuses. but they are only bonuses to me. the $'s is the real motivation.

I take extreme pleasure in popping the finger metaphorically speaking at gas stations that used to vampire my wallet day in and day out

 

[mbender]

I forgot something that I'm not sure has been mentioned here yet: I just hate wasting energy. So even if petroleum didn't have all of its other negatives*, I'd still not like burning it because I'd only be getting/using 20-30% of its energy content!! I just love the 90+% efficiency of electric motors, up to FOUR TIMES that of infernal combustion engines. Moreover, I also count the extraction, refining and transportation of petroleum to be wasted energy as well (especially in comparison to home-solar-charged batteries).

So I guess I can sum up my motivation in five 'words' now: Cheaper, cleaner, domestic, much-more-fun, and far-less-wasteful.


* Say we found a "Ghawar" under Wyoming, :-\, it cost only $1/gallon at the pump, and we could somehow capture or neutralize the CO2 upon combustion.

 

[RonDawg]

I've mentioned this before, but my previous daily driver (now my backup) is an Audi A3 2.0T. The TFSI engine in that car is notorious for its oil consumption (VAG seems to think it's perfectly OK for a 21st century car to burn as much as a quart of oil every 1k miles) and just before I got the Leaf I was seriously contemplating getting rid of it, which would have made me sad as it is an enjoyable car to drive. Since I got the Leaf, the Audi only gets used for long trips, and any stop and go traffic it may encounter is incidental.

Just a brief off-topic thought: I've found that oil consumption can change radically between 0-XX weight oil and 5-XX. I never used zero weight after that.

I was using 5W-40, as recommended by VW/Audi. Newer VAG engines not only require a specific viscosity, but also meet other requirements, depending on engine and year. VAG's spec for my car is known as the "502.00" spec. Use non-spec (or incorrect spec) oil in these engines and you'll end up with sludging and other problems.

The oil consumption is a well-known trait of the VAG TFSI engine series, and there are numerous threads on it over at VWVortex.

 

[ishiyakazuo]

I forgot something that I'm not sure has been mentioned here yet: I just hate wasting energy. So even if petroleum didn't have all of its other negatives*, I'd still not like burning it because I'd only be getting/using 20-30% of its energy content!! I just love the 90+% efficiency of electric motors, up to FOUR TIMES that of infernal combustion engines. Moreover, I also count the extraction, refining and transportation of petroleum to be wasted energy as well (especially in comparison to home-solar-charged batteries).

There are losses associated with charging the battery that offset this a bit. (Now before everyone jumps on me, I said "a bit" here!) But one could argue (quite rightly) that the losses going up to the car are probably comparable between gas (the loss of oil/gasoline due to pipelines that aren't 100% clean, the vehicles used to bring gas to the gas stations themselves burn gas, etc.) and electric (grid loss, the loss in the charging unit converting AC to DC). The waste in energy of making either fuel is absolutely massive... I'd not be surprised if it came out as a wash in the end. (Maybe it's just where the waste happens that makes the difference?)