Damage from leaving a LEAF discharged weeks?

[Deleted member 9999]

So the ice and snow in Minnesota was not kind to my 2013 LEAF, or should I say the F150 that was in the way when the ABS couldn't stop my car on a sheet ice downhill was not kind:

The car went to the body shop pretty quick, because I wanted to get back on the road. I took it to the recommended body shop from my Nissan dealer which is right down the road from them, and luckily one of the "select" body shops from my insurance so they can start work right away.

Well, the car has been sitting in the body shop for 10 days now, because they can't get a Nissan guy out to the car to look at the charging system which obviously was at least knocked out of place. They said that the guy would be in last week, but that didn't happen because he was out on training. That makes me suspicious that they actually don't have anyone who is qualified to look at this problem.

The body work is not what I'm worried about (although I am worried about the paint being okay when turning this in, since it's a lease). When I got into the accident, I was at 3 bars. The car successfully drove home, although it went immediately into turtle mode even though the bars still showed on the dash. The day after, the driver of the flatbed actually drove it onto the tow truck without issues (according to the wife, I was at work). However, when the body shop wanted to get it into the shop, they said it was completely discharged and they had to bring in another flatbed to move it. They claimed they didn't want to push it in because it would try to "charge the battery using the regeneration system" when it was being pushed. I told them that was bunk, and they could easily put it in neutral which doesn't have any regen. I wasn't expecting it to be so long to wait for a repair, so I visited the car to grab some stuff that I had left in it a couple days ago. When I tried to operate the power locks, there was nothing. I didn't have a lot of time and it was up on car jacks so I didn't investigate much further. So now I'm worried about the battery of course. Is my battery going to be screwed over because it is sitting in a shop for 14+ days with "no charge"? The body shop people obviously don't want to try to charge it given the condition of the wiring, but I also don't want to be left with a car with a crap battery just because some guy from Nissan couldn't get out and look at the car for a week, and even more because they're not even going to start the body work and they are thinking they should just tow the car to the Nissan place to fix the electrical system after they fix the body.

The whole experience has me really frustrated. I realize that getting in an accident isn't a normal thing, but having to worry about the whole car being screwed over just because there isn't qualified personnel around is something I wasn't expecting.

 

[xado1]

storag the car in turtle mode is not good for the batterie.the result for no function of the start button is the normal car batterie for sure,because of the accident,there is probably a plus minus connection anywhere in the front damage,an de daylights have always power.
you should find someone,who dismantle the front of the car and seperate all wires,and then try to charge the car.

hope you unterstand what i mean.

 

[stjohnh]

I don't know if it would help, but it looks like you can open the back door, remove the plastic plate on floor hump and remove the emergency cutoff. If there is any charge left in the battery, that may help to keep it ok. Additionally, if the battery is toast, they will surely total the car.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

So, that's what the "crumple zone" looks like?

Please don't take this the wrong way, but, it's only a car. Sounds like you're not damaged, that's the main thing.

Insurance co won't total this? If the battery is useless from being dead too long, can you claim that as due to the accident? And then it's totaled?

 

[RonDawg]

Insurance co won't total this?

Insurance company may not be able to determine if it's a total loss based on the visible damage alone, and may need to have parts removed first before making that determination. But until a tech can come to the body shop to inspect the EV system, the body shop doesn't want to do that.

 

[Deleted member 9999]

I don't know if it would help, but it looks like you can open the back door, remove the plastic plate on floor hump and remove the emergency cutoff. If there is any charge left in the battery, that may help to keep it ok. Additionally, if the battery is toast, they will surely total the car.

I don't know about this cutoff. Maybe if I can send pictures to the body shop they will do this if it would be beneficial. This is the first LEAF that they have ever worked on, they said. This isn't the fireman's "cut this so you don't get electrocuted" in the back right?

So, that's what the "crumple zone" looks like?

Please don't take this the wrong way, but, it's only a car. Sounds like you're not damaged, that's the main thing.

Insurance co won't total this? If the battery is useless from being dead too long, can you claim that as due to the accident? And then it's totaled?

I'm pretty sure the "crumple zone" actually got missed in this accident. The car basically got hit at exactly the level of the headlight / hood, and the hood took most of the damage. The accident was pretty low speed. I'm taking it in stride, was happy that no one was hurt in the accident and just want to get back in my car.

I'm more worried that they will not cover the battery damage because of this "sitting in the shop" problem and because it's not part of the actual accident. Like if the LEAF guy could have come out a week before and checked it out, then it would be fine, but because Nissan couldn't send a guy, now I would be left with a severely sub-optimal car. Also, that this delay would total the car when the body shop estimate so far is <$10k on a pretty expensive car would be annoying because then I need to shop for another LEAF which would probably not be as good a deal as I got, I might end up with a ICE just because of the costs involved and that would make me sad.

My worst fear would be that they don't total the car, and because it's in the shop like this for so long, it would have a significantly degraded battery. My work-gym-home commute is about 45-50 miles each day, and if I can't use this car for that and am on the hook for my lease for 30 more months, it would severely piss me off. :evil:

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Would qualify for battery degradation warranty?

 

[RonDawg]

I don't think negligence, other than Nissan's as part of the original manufacturer, qualifies for a warranty replacement.

As mentioned above, the first thing that should have been pulled by the body shop was that fusible link under the "hump" in the rear floorboard. That would stop any further battery drain. But the body shop is likely not familiar with EVs, so they left it as is.

Plus I've got a feeling that since the OP said his car was driven onto the tow truck's flatbed, the vehicle was not shut off when it got to the body shop, draining the battery. Even a 3 bar battery should not have fully drained on a fully stationary, totally shut off Leaf in only 10 days.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

I know a lead acid would be useless, but what LI? Is it able to hold a charge again?

 

[mwalsh]

From the looks of it, I'd say that was a total. I've seen LEAFs totalled with way less damage. So I wouldn't fret your battery pack.

 

[planet4ever]

I suspect your 12v battery is kaput. It's right in the area that was hit, and could even have leaked. Without 12v power you can't operate the locks or start the car, and when the voltage is low the car's computers can get very confused and give false indications (like turtle). Your big lithium ion battery is probably fine, though you should get that plug pulled on the floor in the back seat.

Ray

 

[xado1]

kaputt,its a german word,lol :lol: :lol: :lol: ,if the plastic housing of the battery is broken,acid runs out and the battery is not working anymore

 

[RonDawg]

I suspect your 12v battery is kaput. It's right in the area that was hit, and could even have leaked. Without 12v power you can't operate the locks or start the car, and when the voltage is low the car's computers can get very confused and give false indications (like turtle). Your big lithium ion battery is probably fine, though you should get that plug pulled on the floor in the back seat.

I don't think the 12 volt battery was damaged, based on the photo. Being relatively far back in the "engine" compartment would keep it pretty protected. Plus as the OP said, he was able to drive the car home and the tow truck driver was able to drive the car onto the flatbed some time after the original crash.

I do agree the 12 volt battery is dead, but again I believe it was due to the car being left on after it got to the body shop.

 

[GregH]

Ouch! Did the airbag deploy? This looks worse than my Joulee3 although I did get the airbag (not an event I'd wish upon anyone, although I walked away without a scratch). Cold weather and low SOC are deadly for your poor 12V lead acid battery but the Lithium pack should be fine. If it showed 3 bars just prior I wonder if the turtle was actually due to low SOC or other issues with the damaged car? Unless the the pack is truly at turtle (some cells at 3.0V or lower) I'd say your pack is going to be fine. Low SOC (say VLBW, 3.6V) and cool temps should be ideal for long term storage.

 

[Tomasz]

Well, the car has been sitting in the body shop for 10 days now, because they can't get a Nissan guy out to the car to look at the charging system which obviously was at least knocked out of place. They said that the guy would be in last week, but that didn't happen because he was out on training. That makes me suspicious that they actually don't have anyone who is qualified to look at this problem.

I read it as "we've picked a guy that is going to be qualified and we sent him to training, he'll get back and be trained to inspect your car"

 

[Deleted member 9999]

Ouch! Did the airbag deploy? This looks worse than my Joulee3 although I did get the airbag (not an event I'd wish upon anyone, although I walked away without a scratch). Cold weather and low SOC are deadly for your poor 12V lead acid battery but the Lithium pack should be fine. If it showed 3 bars just prior I wonder if the turtle was actually due to low SOC or other issues with the damaged car? Unless the the pack is truly at turtle (some cells at 3.0V or lower) I'd say your pack is going to be fine. Low SOC (say VLBW, 3.6V) and cool temps should be ideal for long term storage.

None of the airbags deployed - I was actually truly surprised at how bad the damage looked after the crash, given the low speed. The truck hit the car at what must have been the exact worst spot to cause so much crumpling. It showed 3 bars prior to and, I think actually after the crash too, although it was showing both the "turtle" and "charging system" warning lights. It hadn't hit even LBW yet, although I was expecting it to just before getting home. There have definitely been cool temps recently here in MN - the pack probably sat soaked at -10F for a while. Wonder if the heater kicked in and drained it even more.

I read it as "we've picked a guy that is going to be qualified and we sent him to training, he'll get back and be trained to inspect your car"

Yea, that's what I was implying too. I thought that they would have had more experience with the car by now. :?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Go to the body shop, pull the battery disconnect, and when the car is repaired, ensure it still has the same capacity; if not, file a claim.

I would let the insurance company know NOW of your concerns and implications to them, which means they will likely proactively total it rather than take a chance.

 

[Deleted member 9999]

Go to the body shop, pull the battery disconnect, and when the car is repaired, ensure it still has the same capacity; if not, file a claim.

I would let the insurance company know NOW of your concerns and implications to them, which means they will likely proactively total it rather than take a chance.

Two people have told em about this disconnect, but I can't find reference to it in the manual. Does someone have a picture of it?

I'll let my insurance company know about my concerns.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Go to the body shop, pull the battery disconnect, and when the car is repaired, ensure it still has the same capacity; if not, file a claim.

I would let the insurance company know NOW of your concerns and implications to them, which means they will likely proactively total it rather than take a chance.

Two people have told em about this disconnect, but I can't find reference to it in the manual. Does someone have a picture of it?

I'll let my insurance company know about my concerns.

It's on the top of the "hump", directly in front of the rear seats. Pull back the cheap carpet looking cover and you'll see three 10mm hex head bolts.

Remove those and the metal cover.

You'll see an important looking thing in there. Pull the handle up and out and remove the assembly.



This one has been modified with red knurled headed bolts for finger removal

LEAF Service Manual instructions, page 1:

LEAF Service Manual instructions, page 2:

 

[donald]

No response to key means no 12V. No 12V means the battery contactor will not operate. No reason yet to believe anything wrong with the traction battery. There is unused overhead ('underhead'?) in the low SOC range of the battery pack. It's not a great scenario, but I'd be more concerned about when these guys are likely to get the bodywork fixed, rather than if the drive-train is still operational. Potentially looks quite superficial and, as you say, has mainly damaged the bonnet which looks awful but doesn't look structural. Main costs might come from damaged charging ports.