Dead 2016 Leaf SL This Morning - Plugged In and -25°F

[jotunheim]

My car started fine yesterday with a similar low temperature, but for some reason, the car would not initiate this morning and seemed to be throwing multiple errors. Car was plugged in last night and was driven yesterday as well. When I parked last night at 6pm, it had 4 temperature bars and I immediately plugged it in for the cold night ahead. L2 30 amp AV charger at home.

When I tried starting it this morning, the accessories would come on, but the car would not start and as you can see from the dash, the battery was showing that it was "dead". Did the battery freeze somehow? Anyone else have this problem?

 

[OrientExpress]

Most likely your 12v battery froze.

 

[leaf16]

Yep,
I had the same thing happen yesterday in a 2016 SV after it sat a night just colder than -25F.

When I hit the start button it sounded like an old out of control Pin Ball machine with all the
flashing warning lights, chattering relays and buzzers.

Put a 12V charger on for about an hour and all was well --- Pack temps were at about 9 F.

 

[jotunheim]

Thanks leaf16 and OrientExpress. I will try that this evening when I get back from work. The battery is less than 3 years old, and drive the car almost every day, so I did not expect a problem with the 12V battery. It's also only supposed to be -5°F tonight, so that should help a bit.

Jason

 

[BrockWI]

Jason my experience was more like your first one where I have gotten the turtle and just drove it slow (you don't have a choice) and it warmed up. I would guess it is the 12v by your description and I am guessing it charged full and if the EVSE is plugged in and done charging it sort of keeps the car awake running the 12v down, normally that isn't an issue and technically the car should switch on and charge the 12v, but often at that point it is to dead to do so. So the really cold basically zapped the 12v lead acid as well.

I do wonder if the 12v is dead do the battery warmers still work for the big pack?

 

[LeftieBiker]

I doubt that the battery warmer operates with the accessory battery dead. However, if the car was driven daily then there is a good chance the pack never got cold enough to need it. Leaving the car plugged in while not charging may seem like a good idea, but for a Leaf it isn't.

 

[jotunheim]

I thought I would give an update, as too many threads seem to stop without any sense of closure.

Got home from work around 6:30 this evening and was curious on how the Leaf would behave after some time in the sun and a little warming to -10°F. I was prepared to pull out the 12V charger, but when I went in the car to do a test start, everything seemed fine. I did have the turtle on the dash, but that was expected. Drove it for about 17 miles to let the car's generator charge up the 12V battery some more, but with the heat on full blast, I'm not sure that really helped it much.

Anyway, what I gathered from others posting here, is that I should disconnect the EVSE cable from the car once at or near 100% when it is really cold to keep the car from staying "awake" and draining the 12V battery.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Drove it for about 17 miles to let the car's generator charge up the 12V battery some more, but with the heat on full blast, I'm not sure that really helped it much.

Anyway, what I gathered from others posting here, is that I should disconnect the EVSE cable from the car once at or near 100% when it is really cold to keep the car from staying "awake" and draining the 12V battery.

EVs use a "DC-DC converter" to convert the high pack voltage to the lower voltage needed for the accessories. It can provide a LOT of power, but only when the car is in Ready mode (little yellow-green car lit on dash display). Only the heater blower is 12 volt, not the heater, so that probably helped.

Now, don't think that the cold was entirely the cause of this. Leaving the car plugged in but not charging can cause problems under ANY weather conditions. I'd avoid it whenever possible, and when not possible I'd top up the 12 volt battery with an external charger. Thanks for the update!

 

[mn4az]

Hello from Minneapolis. Been driving a Leaf since '13 (leased the '13SV and now own a '16SV). When my Leaf is outside in subzero temps for more than 4 hours I follow the official Nissan guidance (summary: keep it plugged in) and have yet to have any problems. //knock on wood//

https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/techpub/ManualsAndGuides/LEAF/2016/2016-LEAF-owner-manual.pdf (See pages 5-25 and 5-26)

 

[LeftieBiker]

Hello from Minneapolis. Been driving a Leaf since '13 (leased the '13SV and now own a '16SV). When my Leaf is outside in subzero temps for more than 4 hours I follow the official Nissan guidance (summary: keep it plugged in) and have yet to have any problems. //knock on wood//

https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/techpub/ManualsAndGuides/LEAF/2016/2016-LEAF-owner-manual.pdf (See pages 5-25 and 5-26)

You'd be much better off just leaving the state of charge above 60% (but not 100%) and the car unplugged. The battery warmer will still run if needed, and the 12 volt battery won't be at risk if it doesn't need to run. I left my 2013 sitting, unplugged unless charging, in frigid temps for 5 Winters with no problems.

 

[mn4az]

[/quote]

You'd be much better off just leaving the state of charge above 60% (but not 100%) and the car unplugged. The battery warmer will still run if needed, and the 12 volt battery won't be at risk if it doesn't need to run. I left my 2013 sitting, unplugged unless charging, in frigid temps for 5 Winters with no problems.[/quote]

Why would the 12v battery run when the car is at 100% SOC, plugged in and car turned off?

 

[LeftieBiker]

Why would the 12v battery run when the car is at 100% SOC, plugged in and car turned off?

This is a known issue. The car periodically (and often) uses accessory power to check the status of the charge cable connection, even when off, if plugged in. It does not adequately replace the power used. The issue is worst in the 2013 cars, because they batteries used in those were of lower quality. It occurs regardless of state of charge - I added that because sitting for long periods at 100% isn't good for the battery pack.

I can fix your quote, if you like.

 

[Tsiah]

EVs use a "DC-DC converter" to convert the high pack voltage to the lower voltage needed for the accessories. It can provide a LOT of power, but only when the car is in Ready mode (little yellow-green car lit on dash display).

Why does keeping it plugged in while not charging a bad thing?
I plug mine in every night in the winter, let it charge in the morning just before I leave to run the heat and have enough range to get to work without being at VLB.
When the car is charging (either L2 or L3) leafspy shows the 12v go up to ~14v. It's my understanding that the DC-DC converter is charging the battery while plugged in and according to a document I was reading recently (I can't remember if it was a leafspy document or the owner's manual) the car is only "awake" when the lights on the dash are on.

 

[LeftieBiker]

See the post immediately above yours. The whole car doesn't wake up, just part of the charging system.

 

[smkettner]

In these extreme conditions I think I would have the small 12v battery charger connected along with the main power cable.

 

[Tsiah]

See the post immediately above yours. The whole car doesn't wake up, just part of the charging system.

Sorry...I read that but it didn't click I guess.
At any rate, I've been doing this for 2 Winters and haven't had any problems. Maybe kicking the heat and charger on for that hour at the end of being plugged in like that is enough to charge the battery back up.

 

[LeftieBiker]

It has to be plugged in and not charging for quite a few hours, and it's more likely to happen if this occurs frequently.